ground camera

[Great_Alex]

I heard about a camera(perhaps of USA military)that can show under ground objects (metals or others )very well . i don't say about thermal camera (or super fine GPRs).i don't know it use of Xray or Gamma ray but it can show objects 25 meters under ground very good.it has a motherstation device with wireless connection and a laptop computer and can estimate depth and size of target .
briefly you can see target.

i'm looking for that device and more information about that , do you heard something like this or have information about it ?

[strujas]

If something like that really exist,,I dont belive that any of us civilian can obtain that (Only if He works in NASA)!
I am dreaming for something like that!!!!
You have much more simple devices like EMFAD UG 12 or OKM EXPLORER ,,,GEMS....but they are not so reliable

[Leto]

I heard about a camera(perhaps of USA military)that can show under ground objects (metals or others )very well
Probably this is it.
Technique developed a lot since then, but not for us mortals...
From Speleonics 14 Feb. 1990

[Great_Alex]

Dear Leto

maybe it was UWB radar .but it was very portable and price about 500000$. are you have more complete information about that ? is it dangrous tool?

[schatzsucher]

where the schematics? :)

[Leto]

Alex
sorry can't help you much with this.
is it dangrous tool? 100MW lasers used at this experiments are surely dangerous :rolleyes: . There are other types of Impulse Radars already developed, like MIR - M for micropower, surely this is the future of GPR.

schatzsucher
where the schematics? :)
sorry to you too: I sticked my head too close to that Alexandrite Laser - erased my memory at once :razz: :p :( ...

[schatzsucher]

ok, so i´ll do it.
but, it´s nearly the same.
sorry, file emp.pdf is in german.

[Leto]

:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
Thanks schatzsucher for this.
I never saw better description (in such detail) of EMP project.
..and good for me as I can read german.
for all the others translation from last paragraphs:
...Here shown device can with proper constructed antenna destoy computers and semiconductors in distance of 600 meters. Please do not point the device towards humans or electronic devices. ..

[Seeker]

Hi guys,
at those files has pictures of first TX and RX invented by Heinrich Rudolf Hertz in XIX century.Of course not with semicomductors , but the same principle.
So , that TX can't produce single EM pulse , but only burst of hushed waves.
For single pulse see ZETEX's applications of avalanche transistors .

regards

[Great_Alex]

Thanks Leto & schatzsucher I avoid that .
I can live without treasure.

[Max]

I heard about a camera(perhaps of USA military)that can show under ground objects (metals or others )very well . i don't say about thermal camera (or super fine GPRs).i don't know it use of Xray or Gamma ray but it can show objects 25 meters under ground very good.it has a motherstation device with wireless connection and a laptop computer and can estimate depth and size of target .
briefly you can see target.

i'm looking for that device and more information about that , do you heard something like this or have information about it ?

Hi Great,
yes there are many out there...but keep in mind that this stuff is not for civilian...need some radioisothope source of gamma-rays...etc...and it's really dangerous to healt of operators.

Mostly used in demining stuff...or e.g. on-board in tanks...etc
but these are sensitive technologies...you know...can't be exported...etc etc etc...

CISRO in Australia has a prototype as I posted...somewhere in remote sensing sub-forum...find it and you will know more.

Best regards,
Max

[99thpercentile]

Since I work for the US Army and I am a geophysicist let me comment on this. It doesn't exist. There is no technology that is physically possible that can find a target 25 meters under ground with centimeter resolution. In a perfect environment (dry sand, low conductivity) a GPR system could penetrate 100 meters, but not with centimeter resolution, maybe meters. This has to do with the tradeoff between pentration and resolution. Lower frequencies penetrate farther, but offer poorer resolution. Higher frequencies have high resolution but attentuate quickly leading to poor depth penetration.

[Max]

Since I work for the US Army and I am a geophysicist let me comment on this. It doesn't exist. There is no technology that is physically possible that can find a target 25 meters under ground with centimeter resolution. In a perfect environment (dry sand, low conductivity) a GPR system could penetrate 100 meters, but not with centimeter resolution, maybe meters. This has to do with the tradeoff between pentration and resolution. Lower frequencies penetrate farther, but offer poorer resolution. Higher frequencies have high resolution but attentuate quickly leading to poor depth penetration.

Hi 99,
Yes. Not with RF, anyway not. Not GPR. I agree. But, as you surely know, gamma is a completely different story ...an example...here:

http://www.minerals.csiro.au/main/pg2.asp?id=36013

well...of course there are a lot of problems reaching 1cm resolution at 25meters underground...but at 5-10 meters is not a problem.
But with no discrimination. Enviromental problems, hazards...
This stuff is too "dangerous" I think, and not for hobbists in any case.

I think he was talking about a gamma-ray camera...not GPR.

Best regards,
Max

[Great_Alex]

Hi Max

last year i saw a russian military camera for finding mine i think it use of xray because it could show skleton of human body or metals but not deep .
about ground camera :
first i said i heard about it but infact i use it once.portable part of that is not like a camera it's like a box about 25" * 18" * 3" and i test it with a small tea cup buried about 6 meters deep . i could see the cup very well and the other information about my sample (volume depth ).... i don't know what was that device but it's work very well.it has noname or sign and the laptop's computer preprogramed for that device (it has not windows or such OS).

Thanks

[michael]

Oh, I had heard just such thing made by a Russian electrician.
3-4 years ago.
at that time I saw one team here and they told a couple of years ago they had one detector that was made by a Russian engineer, the guy who was acquainted with this Russian was another engineer(their friend) who had deceased.
I here describe behalf of them what they told and had seen:
" The device had one central unit that should plugged directly to 220V energy and from other side connected to one big and tick probe and from one other side to a laptop. they should insert probe about 20 meters far from central unit and laptop and should dig a small hole to make a little pit to put probe inside it and pushed it inside ground in the pit.
people should keep away probe ( for safety caution). When he turned it on they could clearly see big dense objects inside ground such as big stones or big metal targets like in air from over perspective. its' penetration power was for 15 meters radius and 12 meters depth."
they had found one jar full of coins at 7 meters by it.
They told in one skirmish some guys stole it and after that never could make a connection to maker or any people who knows this kind of system. they told it was a fantastic device.
of course at that time I didn't believe them although they were so much serious.
But now my mind and opinion has been changed and I see everything is conceivable.

[Clondike Clad]

I THANK Xray IS THE KEY.
I'M WORKING ON THIS.

[michael]

Maybe, as well I thouth so, although some doesn't believe in this.
for X-raying you know it needs ample of tools or epuipments( a van ).
I wish you succeed and tell about it, don't forget to keep us entirely in contact.
I'm the first one who likes to order it, if you desire.;)

[sharky]

Hi 99,
Yes. Not with RF, anyway not. Not GPR. I agree. But, as you surely know, gamma is a completely different story ...an example...here:

http://www.minerals.csiro.au/main/pg2.asp?id=36013

well...of course there are a lot of problems reaching 1cm resolution at 25meters underground...but at 5-10 meters is not a problem.
But with no discrimination. Enviromental problems, hazards...
This stuff is too "dangerous" I think, and not for hobbists in any case.

I think he was talking about a gamma-ray camera...not GPR.

Best regards,
Max

techniques exist and are secret similar to radio interferometers...or using ultra uhf bands for small wave lenght

[Max]

techniques exist and are secret similar to radio interferometers...or using ultra uhf bands for small wave lenght


Hi,
gamma-ray ones exist but are not for hobbists... sunday-THunters etc too risks involved, too expensive stuff, too skills and knowledge required... it's military stuff only... and civilian applications are still prototypes that only big e.g. minerary-companies (like CSIRO of Australia) can play with.
Me personally don't like the approach of hi-invasive radiations in the environment to find stuff... and also if you use lot of care this stuff can easy kill you in matter of few years.
So I think there isn't future in the TH scenario for this stuff... and applications will remain only military or by big companies with lot of money to spend in safety devices and automated testing e.g. vehicles.

Other things like pulsed microwaves are possible... but you have to consider that enormous power is required to penetrate soil with that and not so easy to mount e.g. a 1MW microwave laser (actually "maser") on your shoulder.

Non-portable machines... so you need the "van" ... you need a very powerful e.g. gas-generator etc etc

Similar problems for these... so no future for these on the TH scenario.

Kind regards,
Max

[Clondike Clad]

what about injection on x rays to pick up metal in the ground.
all we need is to go 10 inch deep

[Esteban]

what about injection on x rays to pick up metal in the ground.
all we need is to go 10 inch deep

Also I has this idea. I'm semi-sure that this can be great. Inexpensive X-ray machine.

http://www.noah.org/science/x-ray/stong/

[Fred]

what about injection on x rays to pick up metal in the ground.
all we need is to go 10 inch deep
If bones are not transparent to X-rays i cant imagine how mineral soil could be? or do we need Mw of power?
Fred.

[Qiaozhi]

Also I has this idea. I'm semi-sure that this can be great. Inexpensive X-ray machine.

http://www.noah.org/science/x-ray/stong/
My goodness!
I remember this book: "The Scientific American Book of Projects for The Amateur Scientist".
There were several interesting but quite dangerous projects in it, if I recall. :cool:

[Qiaozhi]

Fantastic - this brings back memories:
http://www.ebookee.com/The-quot-Scientific-American-quot-Book-of-Projects-for-The-Amateur-Scientist_145423.html
Click on the download button to get your free ebook. :yo:

[Fred]

Fantastic - this brings back memories:
http://www.ebookee.com/The-quot-Scientific-American-quot-Book-of-Projects-for-The-Amateur-Scientist_145423.html
Click on the download button to get your free ebook. :yo:
Great! thanks for the link,
I was precisely trying to download it via p2p!! :lol:
Regards,
Fred.

[J_Player]

Excellent link Qiaozhi! :super:

The Xray machine project is nice.

I particularly like the "homemade atom smasher". What fun we could have with this particle accelerator in the parlor! I wonder if I can transmute lithium into unstable beryllium like Cockcroft and Walton did with a similar atom smasher.

And the project to tranquilize a rat could come in handy on treasure hunts when wild animals intrude into your camp.

Best wishes,
J_P

[J_Player]

If bones are not transparent to X-rays i cant imagine how mineral soil could be? or do we need Mw of power?
Fred.The Xray machine in the article probably puts out less Xray strength than a dentist office Xray machine. In order to see the Xray image, we must place the film behind the object to see the shadow left from Xrays at the back side of the target. This would mean we need to capture the Xray image from under the buried target to locate it.

Because we cannot put our sensors under the target, ground-penetrating radar is the closest thing to Xrays used look for the reflected waves. The received signal is a low resolution indication of a target, similar to the signal a metal detector finds when over metal. Radar and Xrays do not produce an image of the target because these reflected waves cannot be focused onto an image on a viewing surface. At least not with optical lenses or electronics.

If we wanted to see an Xray image of the target under the ground, it may be possible by watching the reflected Xrays with special lobster eye lenses that use the principle of reflection rather than refraction to produce an image of the reflected Xrays. See these pages for details of these lobster eye lenses:
http://spie.org/x14632.xml
http://www.poc.com/emerging_products/lexid/default.asp

The Xray machine in the project probably would not have enough power to make a visible image on an image sensor array when reflected from the ground 1.5 meters distance. But if it were focused on a photomultiplier tube, then it may be very easily visible. We can't know unless we try looking at the reflected Xrays with a lobster eye lens and a photomultiplier tube. But looking at the photos of the security Xray vision scanners, it looks like they work fine with low power battery hand-held units. I suspect the hand-held security pistols emit less Xray strength than the home Xray project.

Best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

All good... BUT what about hazards ? :lol:

THIS STUFF CAN FRY YOUR CELLS REALLY EASY ! :razz:

Think about before you make some 1KW power supply... for your surplus tube bought on ebay ! ;)

Kind regards,
Max

[J_Player]

All good... BUT what about hazards ? :lol:

THIS STUFF CAN FRY YOUR CELLS REALLY EASY ! :razz:

Think about before you make some 1KW power supply... for your surplus tube bought on ebay ! ;)Exactly. Very dangerous for people who do not understand the hazards.

In the case of the X-ray vision pistol, you see a man holding the pistol for searching and inspecting behind walls. This is a low power unit that reflects weak X-rays back to the pistol lens. The man is not harmed by the reflected X-rays because they are much weaker than what you find in a dentist office. Yet this same pistol can show images from behind steel plates and several inches into the ground from a distance of 9 feet. We will not need to worry about hundreds of treasure hunters with these new X-ray vision pistols because they cost a half million dollars each :( and will not come down in price until the development phase is completed. This means that hackers will not be modding these pistols for a sharp focused beam to increase the X-ray concentration in places where we are treasure hunting. :)

http://www.homelandsecurity.org/snapshots/newsletter/2007-11.htm#story3

Best wishes,
J_P

[baza6xd]

VISION GUN 777, about 25000$

[Great_Alex]

:angry:Another crap detector for wasting money :angry:

[amtech2005]

This would be a good place to post "Honest Data" . Like the output sweep frequencies of a GPR or Ground Camera / image device . I always thought that Ground imaging was in the High Mega-hertz range up to several Giga-Hertz or higher . The difference of the two multiplex signals were your color differences or your targets in the ground ............It sure would be nice to see the "True , Honest Frequency Specs" and range of a "Working Machine" so we know what to look for , especially when someone posts their "Product of the Century" :D:D:D:D:D.....on this forum !!!..........Eugene