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Offline Rational Observer
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« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2010, 03:11:53 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Dell_Winders
   No no!  Having reviewed, and considered Carl's challenge test in the past, it certainly doesn't apply to the use of LRL's in practical  field use. it's definitely a scientific pretenders beg for attention "gimmick" copycatted from a magician, The Amazing Randi's long running publicity gimmick.

It will be just as easy to win Randi's $1m challenge which has never ever been officially won in 22 years of running as it is to win Carl's 25,000. Both are a publicity gimmick.

I would like to see Carl, redesign his $25,000 challenge test for metal detector manufacturers, and owners and see if any metal detector can pass a test he designs and win his $25,000.  Not likely!

Does anybody here think Carl, is so stupid as to offer a win-able test that will cost him $25,000?  I don't think so.  It's merely a sleazy gimmick to promote himself.  Dell


I would like to see Dell Winders stop soliciting fraudulent treasure hunting devices. I would also like to see Dell Winders stop whining on various internet message boards.



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Offline Carl-NC
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« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2010, 03:57:36 pm »
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I could easily design a randomized double-blind procedure for testing the ability of a metal detector to detect metal. Let's say, place a silver dollar under 1-of-10 paper plates. The user can swing the coil over the plate as long as the coil doesn't touch the plate.

Practically any metal detector made could pass this test with a 100% success rate. I wouldn't dare put my money up for this... I already know metal detectors work, and don't need it demonstrated to me.

But LRLs? never seen a single one work.



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Offline fenixdigger
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« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2010, 04:07:15 pm »
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Carl, a question or two. Has anyone tried your test?  If so what did they use?  thanks

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Offline Dell_Winders
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« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2010, 04:32:35 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Carl-NC
I could easily design a randomized double-blind procedure for testing the ability of a metal detector to detect metal. Let's say, place a silver dollar under 1-of-10 paper plates. The user can swing the coil over the plate as long as the coil doesn't touch the plate.

Practically any metal detector made could pass this test with a 100% success rate. I wouldn't dare put my money up for this... I already know metal detectors work, and don't need it demonstrated to me.

But LRLs? never seen a single one work.




You have been able to design a gimmick $25,000 challenge  for LRL's that is UN-winable. Why can't you  develop a  gimmick $25,000 challenge for Metal detectors that is UN-winable?  Dell

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Offline Carl-NC
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« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2010, 04:59:17 pm »
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Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
Carl, a question or two. Has anyone tried your test?  If so what did they use?  thanks


No one has yet taken the full formal test, but I have applied randomized testing to a number of people who used Electroscope, LectraSearch, Treasure Scope, and a variety of home-made units. Maybe more I can't remember. No one has ever done better than guessing.


Quote:Posted by Dell_Winders
You have been able to design a gimmick $25,000 challenge  for LRL's that is UN-winable. Why can't you  develop a  gimmick $25,000 challenge for Metal detectors that is UN-winable?  Dell


Oh, I could create an un-winnable metal detector test, by demanding the metal detector perform well beyond its claimed ability. Ferinstance, I could demand that the metal detector be able to detect a silver dollar from 10 feet away, or demand that it detect gold and nothing else. But it's unfair to demand a level of performance beyond the product's claims.

With LRLs, I demand a level of performance well below the product's claims. Instead of 100 yards, I'm OK with 10 feet. Instead of micro gold, I'm OK with using a 10-ounce bar. Is this unfair?

The real question is, why is such an easy test "un-winnable"?

And if you think my test is un-winnable, I invite you (as I have many times before) to design an LRL test that is winnable.




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Offline fenixdigger
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« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2010, 07:25:39 pm »
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Sounds fair to me.  However, there are certain conditions that will make any recovery impossible. I have 3 sites that the micro gold is overwhelming. I have 2 sites that the local rocks seem to reflect signals. I think if you could scan the area before hand, it would be easy to detect a new signal. Of course if I  knew I was within 25 ft to start, I would think that unfair to you.

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Offline Carl-NC
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« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2010, 07:49:15 pm »
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Sure, you can prescan the site. You can even personally select the site. I encourage it! Once you are convinced there are no interfering anomalies, I'll put a 10-ounce gold bar on the ground, and even mark its location, then see if you can find it with the LRL. This should be the easiest thing in the world for an LRL to do, yet they consistently fail. (If you think the test is unfair to me, you are welcomed to make it tougher!)




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Offline fenixdigger
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« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2010, 08:25:51 pm »
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You gotta be kidding me!!!

It's hard for me to believe they couldn't locate it. I hate to say this, but I know 4 people that could do this. We may have to talk about it. I've seen one of them find a quarter from 200ft.
Do you seriously want someone to do this?

I didn't learn to do this to take money from someone. I believe I can do this with at least 2 different units and 1 old school method.

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« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2010, 08:43:34 pm »
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We may have to talk about it. I've seen one of them find a quarter from 200ft.

That's ridicules you need to show documented proof 

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Offline Carl-NC
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« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2010, 09:02:42 pm »
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Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
You gotta be kidding me!!!

It's hard for me to believe they couldn't locate it. I hate to say this, but I know 4 people that could do this. We may have to talk about it. I've seen one of them find a quarter from 200ft.


I'll bet they can't do it better than guessing.

Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
Do you seriously want someone to do this?


$25,000 serious.

Quote:Posted by fenixdigger
I didn't learn to do this to take money from someone. I believe I can do this with at least 2 different units and 1 old school method.


But you have someone who is willing to pay, so you may as well take advantage of me. If someone offered me $25,000 to prove I can whistle, I'd start whistling!



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