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Offline ChrisTopic starter
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« on: August 04, 2006, 02:16:07 pm »
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In an effort to stay with the theme of this particular area of the forum, and to add input to answer the question: Do they work?

...I have lifted some information that appeared a few years back and provided it below.  I'm confident the original author would not mind me placing it here in this forum.

I realize it is long, and involves some real electronic terminology, which some will not understand ---however, the information is quite pertinent and should be here in this topic area.

It was originally posted on October 3, 1999, by the author Evan.

Read and understand... if you come to a term you don't understand, look it up on the Internet, or a high school science text book.



The fallacy of the inverse-square law as applied to the MFD Electromagnetic radiation (radio waves, light, etc.) consists of interacting, self-sustaining electric and magnetic fields that propagate through empty space at the speed of 299,792 km per second. These waves cover a wide spectrum of frequencies. When a direct current (DC) is applied to a wire (conductor) the current flow builds an electromagnetic field around the wire, propagating a wave outward from the wire. When the current is removed the field collapses, again propagating a wave. If the current is applied and removed repeatedly over a period of time, or if the applied current is made to alternate its polarity with a uniform period of time, a series of waves is propagated at a discrete frequency. This phenomenon is the basis of electromagnetic radiation. Electromagnetic radiation is propagated nominally in a straight line at the speed of light in a vacuum, and does not require a medium for transmission. The amount of energy arriving at a detecting device of fixed area located at a given distance from an isotropic source is proportional to the amount of energy passing the surface of an imaginary sphere with a radius of the given distance. Therefore, the amount of electromagnetic energy passing through a unit area decreases with the square of the distance from the source. This relationship is known as the inverse-square law of (electromagnetic) propagation. It accounts for loss of signal strength over space, called space loss.

Suppose for a minute we have a device (MFD or similar device) that could couple 1 watt of rf energy to it's antenna, and transmit the entire amount. (This is a reach by any means, and calculations of battery consumption and antenna efficiency can easily prove this, but let's just suppose for a minute that it can.) Again, let's suppose that a mile away, we have a piece of gold about the size of a softball that we're going to detect. Not a bad find, if we could find it.

The one watt of energy we sent out from out transmitter moves away from the source at the speed of light (not 200mph, sorry Dell). At a distance of one mile, all that power is spread evenly on the surface of an imaginary sphere with a radius of one mile (5280 feet). The maximum amount of this one watt available to the gold ball is equal to the area of the gold ball, divided by the surface area of the imaginary 1 mile radius sphere multiplied by the 1 watt.

The surface area of the sphere is 4 pi r^2, in our case r=5280 feet or 63,360 inches. If we apply the formula, the surface area of the sphere would be 50,400,000,000 square inches. The gold ball is about 4 inches in diameter, so it has a cross sectional area of about 13 square inches. The total power that can be imparted to the gold is then 13 divided by 50,400,000,000 or about .00000000026 watts (not a whole hell of a lot).

Now, in order to detect the gold back where we are, a mile away, the gold must release all of this energy back out so it can be "detected". The same equations hold true for the return trip, except that the gold is now the transmitter, and it can generate at the very most .00000000026 watts. This time, we'll assume a larger receiver, about 1 square foot or 144 square inches, a little large for a couple of "L" rods but who's counting. Anyway, applying the same equation, the amount of power we can intercept is 0.00000000000000000074 watts. This is an amount so very, very small, it would be comparable to being able to find a specific grain of sand, located somewhere on this planet, not going to happen.........

The fact that the antenna efficiency is probably less than 1/100,000 has not even been accounted for and would just make it that much smaller.
The fallacy of the inverse-square law in this application is only that it has to be applied twice. Once for the signal going out, and once for the return trip. The effect is that the signal is reduced by the distance to the fourth power, and not just the second power.

So......All those expensive wonder electronics in the MFD's and similar gadgets, do absolutely nothing to help find remote objects (sorry)

Evan



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« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2006, 04:32:25 pm »
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Does this law apply to Sine Waves, Square Waves. Triangular waves , Saw Tooth Waves, Impulse Waves, White Noise and Pink Noise? Is this guy real or another one of your AKA's?

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Offline ChrisTopic starter
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« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2006, 06:20:37 pm »
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Quote:Posted by {author}
Does this law apply to Sine Waves, Square Waves. Triangular waves , Saw Tooth Waves, Impulse Waves, White Noise and Pink Noise? Is this guy real or another one of your AKA's?


Dell, please don't play dumb.  Errrr... maybe you're not playing.  You know very well the "Evan" who wrote that piece because you were involved in the forum (thread) at the time.  Why do you suppose he mentioned your name?

Art, ...Evan is (I believe) an electronics engineer of some kind and is an avid THer somewhere on the East coast.  Carl knows him as well, so perhaps he can tell you his last name and exactly where he lives.

I could have written the same explanation, about the Inverse-Square Law, but it would be extremely difficult for me to improve on what Evan already wrote ---so I found it easier to just use his writing.

Yes, Art... the Inverse-Square Law APPLIES TO ALL REAL WAVE PROPAGATION TECHNIQUES, and to all types of waves whether they be sine, square, saw-tooth or whatever.

Of course, Wish Science has it's own rules and laws ---and although we are told the "black-boxes" are transmitting some type of real signal --apparently, this signal(?) does not have to abide by laws that govern ALL OTHER types of wave propagation in this world.   :Smiley

Go figure....  Wink

BTW, the Inverse-Square Law, as Evan described it is not up for debate.... not with me, not with him, not with anyone.  It is not a theory... it is a rule... a law that ALL systems which are involved with wave propagation MUST adhere to.  There is no way around it.  Period.

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« Last Edit: August 04, 2006, 06:25:59 pm by Chris »
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« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2006, 06:55:20 pm »
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In physics, an inverse-square law is any physical law stating that some physical quantity or strength is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source of that physical quantity.

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A physical law, scientific law, or a law of nature is a scientific generalization based on empirical observations of physical behavior. They are typically conclusions based on the confirmation of hypotheses through repeated scientific experiments over many years, and which have become accepted universally within the scientific community. While there are no uncontroversial rules as to how or when a scientific hypothesis becomes a scientific law, scientific laws at their strongest are generally observations that have never had repeatable contradictions.

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« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2006, 02:16:59 am »
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Hmmm... guess you forgot already.  Sad

It's not debatable.

Grin

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« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2006, 07:40:29 am »
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This is not a debate forum...The inverse-square law's difinition is pretty simple. So what Physical Law did your engineer use? You stated that an  LRL will not sent out a signal. You then say that the signal is to weak to be of any use. All the time you state that it makes no difference as Ideomotor Response is the only way the rods will close.
This is a study of a ground anttena showing how the body will respond to radio waves..

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This little experiment will prove that your law may apply. Check the natural signals from a flake of gold and a 1/4 oz. nugget. I can pick up the flake for 46 paces and the 1/4 oz nugget for almost a 1/4 mile. Now place the objects 3/4 miles from your LRL or the distance limits of your unit. TURN IT ON. Now check to see if you have two signal lines. Now move the LRL back another 1/4 mile. No signal. I guess we ran out of power...Art


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« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2006, 09:22:17 am »
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Sorry Dell, I have no knowledge of any attempt to put you out of business, nor do I personally know any of the individuals you've mentioned.   Of course I've heard of Evan, and Carl has the GeoTech website, and based on the content I've read on his site, I could see why you would like to put Carl out of business; --but I doubt very much there is the concentrated effort that you think there is to stop you from bilking people out of their hard-earned money.

On the other hand, I could certainly understand IF there were folks who wanted you put out of business.  It would be no different than wanting those who push drugs, or those who take part in any sort of illegal activity --put out of commission.

Fraud through wilfull deception is still a crime, and I couldn't care less if you have "back-orders" that you will never get filled in your lifetime.  That does not validate your scam business, neither does it excuse you from being prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law IF the appropriate law enforcement agencies had time to deal with you.  The mere fact that you are still running around and able to pursue your scam business, simply means the Attorney General of Florida has other more pressing and bigger criminals to go after.

Enjoy your $$$$$$, your backorders and your freedom while you can... you just never know when it might all come to an abrupt halt.

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« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2006, 10:48:25 am »
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You keep giving us prove. Some Skeptics are rude and can not be trusted...Art

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« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2006, 11:08:23 am »
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Even, wow I sure miss him. he has treasured hunted in the are of my home town in NY!  Even, if you are around come join US!  Bill Pierce

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« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2006, 04:42:42 pm »
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Quote:Posted by {author}
Chris, again you continue to make untrue,  libelous, unsubstanstiated allegations and inferences about me.

I  sincerely hope Christian, and this website does not support a freedom of speech that allows you  to make poison pen posts, about  other participants, and will  now block you   from  any further posting.  Dell


Have you ever thought maybe he could block your not-so-subtle advertising for your do-nothing black box dowsing contraptions?   Huh?

Tell you what, Dell...  

You offer up some good believeable and validated proof that your "black-box"-assisted dowsing rods, or your copy of the Fitzgerald locator rod, operate differently (and more accurately) than plain old bent-wire coathangers ---and I'll leave.

Deal?   Huh?

...otherwise, we got a looooooooooonnnnnnnnng row to hoe.    Grin

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« Last Edit: August 05, 2006, 04:45:34 pm by Chris »
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