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Offline Rational Observer
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« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2010, 07:21:39 am »
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Quote:Posted by lockspyder
you still have not told anyone how the thing works,what scientific principal does it use? is it a magnometer?does it use heat signature recognition, does it use the same principal as a sonar devise? I have used one of your contraptions it did not find anything, we read the instructions, researched everything, it does not work, if you found anything with it --it was plain dumb luck, there is no magic device that can find metal at a distance, you cant map dowse and find anything, two sticks made of willow will not point to anything,LRL is fiction period-- there is no scientific principal that would allow it to work,it is not a tool---its a PT Barnum or Rue Goldberg device to con ignorant people out of their money--PROVE ME WRONG, explain the scientific principal behind the device---its just that simple


I'm just a rational observer here...but, I do believe this poster has hit the nail on the head! Congratulations!

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Offline Dell_Winders
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« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2010, 11:12:17 am »
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Quote:Posted by yelpoc
No LRL device has every been shown to work as described by their manufacturer.

Untrue!    Dell


Quote:Posted by lockspyder
I am not a scientist,that's for sure, I do have a class A HAM operator license, I know electronic circuits having built transmitter receiver's to get my license, that does not make me an expert, but I do have enough knowledge to understand electronic devices and their principal of operation. So if you could explain how the device works I would understand its operation and could respond with a complete retraction of my statement after all if its not a fraud ,I owe you an apology. You have done everything but answer my question,what is the scientific proof it works, not theory , you take a theory,build a working model, then patent it,LRL--- I could not find one patent on them, show me your patent number


Positive results = Fact.  Science is based on facts. I have shared with you some of the facts, based on my years of Treasure Hunting experience in the field use of Molecular Frequency Discrimination (MFD) and Harmonic Induction Discrimination (HID). These are not terms I made up, but were applied to these methods by Scientist in 1986 and 1987. Hopefully, these applied terms will give you some insight into  the physics that may be  incorporated in their use.

Again, I am not a Scientist, so any description of my own interpretation, and basic  theory of how these methods actually work would be conjecture, and irrelevant without having a formal degree in physics, or electronics to support my opinion. I will not be dishonest and pretend I know the answers you seek.

I am not the inventor. Therefore, I have no patent.

The first MFD LRL's were fully electronic (No Rods)  I introduced the Rods to the marketed MFD in 1986. Electronics people, including EE's, followed suit, and have copied ever since.

 LRL's utilizing HID, require no electronics. Sometimes electronics are added to provide the operator some control, but are not necessary.

The methods are not Fraud. I have 40 years of field experience as a Professional Treasure Hunter/Salvor in the use of Scientifically accepted, and non-conventional methods to compare results with. When you, and the other detractors here are able to match that experience, then you may have earned the right to question my character.  Until then your inferences of my being untruthful, and committing fraud are apparently spoken from your own ignorance.  Certainly, your  attitude, and approach to learning does not indicate you have done ALL the research on this subject as you indicated you have.  Sad

In my opinion, Fraud is in the mis-leading advertising claims. MFD & HID are viable working concepts in need of further development.

"THE DOOR TO KNOWLEDGE & UNDERSTANDING IS NEVER OPEN TO A CLOSED, OR PREJUDICED MIND"    Dell

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« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 11:22:28 am by Dell_Winders »
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tesoro,bounty hunter,
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2010, 11:53:49 am »
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MFD--HID are not even facts, they are theory's, made up not by scientist, but laymen.to quote them as facts is irresponsible. anyone can state molecules can vibrate at certain frequencies,but to claim that you can detect them from a distance and discriminate their frequency is pure BS.The molecules in gold are solid,not liquid,there is no electrical or molecular movement within this element, so how does your MFD detect this?What scientist wrote a thesis on MFD? if one does exist what is his name? I stand by my statements LRL do not work,nor could they work with today's technology--someday in the future someone might figure out how to do it,not today.

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« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2010, 12:11:23 pm »
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Dell Winders, I've got a friend who bought two of your units and as far as I can tell, he'd have been better off wrapping a few wires to a block of wood and bending two coathangers and using that

Your friend must have had some faith in them are would not have bought 2.

 Not sure why having class A HAM operator license, gives you the right to call anyone a fraud

I do not know Dell but have read his post and reports for sometime now. He has always been willing to talk to anyone about his LRL By email or on the phone he has never made any claims that he could not back up.

Does his LRL work I don't know and I don't care but until someone can prove different we have no right calling him are anyone else a fraud conman etc. Proof Gentleman Proof

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« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2010, 04:50:30 pm »
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in order to get a class A license you have to build a transmitter receiver and demonstrate how it works,along with a schematic of your device,if you dont understand electronics you will not get a license,I know how to build electronic devices including metal detectors, all three typs,TR.BFO,andVLF,altho I have never messed with the pulse induction I do understand how they work. Measuring molecular frequencies sounds scientific,truth is gold does not transmit any radio or molecular frequencies, unless used in an electronic circuit,it does conduct electronic current very well. If you never heard of a HAM operator I suggest you Google it. I know enough about electronics to know LRL is a pipe dream for now,someday someone might figure out a LRL, but you can bet your bottom dollar it wont have anything to do with molecular frequency discrimination, it will probably use a strong radio signal in a direct beam with a sensitive signal receiver in a computer designed to analyze the reflected signal, it will be in the high frequency band width and will have two antennas in a 45 degree angle to catch the scatter  and its still a question of ground penetration and interference.it wont be a hand held for sure
to anyone interested in these LRL,just Google-- Treasure scope-Geo tech-LRL's --treasure scope quad,by Carl moorland- it will give you the lowdown on these devices from a pure science point of view, to those people who refuse to believe in science please read anyway,it will give you something to think about before you pay $650-to- $1800 for $30 worth of electronic parts

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« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2010, 05:29:08 pm »
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Quote:Posted by seldom

Does his LRL work I don't know and I don't care but until someone can prove different we have no right calling him are anyone else a fraud conman etc. Proof Gentleman Proof



Just an observation here...but continuously using fabricated terms, such as Molecular Frequency Discrimination (MFD) and Harmonic Induction Discrimination (HID)...and claiming them scientific is proof enough of fraudulent tendencies. Also noteworthy is you cannot prove something doesn't work....if it has never been proved to work, in the first place.

What would you consider sufficient proof of something NOT being a fraud or con? There is no validation from the scientific or electronic communities that are supporting these claims 

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« Reply #46 on: January 24, 2010, 06:01:52 pm »
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Quote:Posted by lockspyder
in order to get a class A license you have to build a transmitter receiver and demonstrate how it works,along with a schematic of your device,if you dont understand electronics you will not get a license,I know how to build electronic devices including metal detectors, all three typs,TR.BFO,andVLF,altho I have never messed with the pulse induction I do understand how they work. Measuring molecular frequencies sounds scientific,truth is gold does not transmit any radio or molecular frequencies, unless used in an electronic circuit,it does conduct electronic current very well. If you never heard of a HAM operator I suggest you Google it. I know enough about electronics to know LRL is a pipe dream for now,someday someone might figure out a LRL, but you can bet your bottom dollar it wont have anything to do with molecular frequency discrimination, it will probably use a strong radio signal in a direct beam with a sensitive signal receiver in a computer designed to analyze the reflected signal, it will be in the high frequency band width and will have two antennas in a 45 degree angle to catch the scatter  and its still a question of ground penetration and interference.it wont be a hand held for sure


You might want to take up your argument with some of the electronics people who are manufacturing LRL's. However, it is  unlikely you will find them by complaining  on this forum.

I'm sorry that I am not qualified to  intelligently discuss electronic's with you. I have no formal training whatsoever.

Your rationale of fraud, ignorance, and greed does evoke  questions  about the LRL's being manufactured by degreed  electronics people. You make it seem that you can't trust people in electronics industry?? Or, is it possible  they know something about how LRL's work that you don't???

Like me, you can only honestly  speak from your personal with  LRL, which from your posts appear to be limited.

Personally, I usually start my MFD  scans by broadcasting the signal through the air (Air mode). When in close proximity to the target "field" I will broadcast a short distance through the ground to gain additional information about the target.  In the air mode, broadcast from the highest point for maximum distance.  Here's a another tip. Continually check for interference to be sure you have a constant "Strength of Field".

I hope what I have learned in the field is helpful in your own understanding, and use of MFD/LRL.

You can add to your research that,  the first Frequency Discriminators I used from 1980 until 1988 were fully electronically metered.  (No Rods)

"WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE, CAN BE DONE"      Dell
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Quote:Posted by Rational Observer
Just an observation here...but continuously using fabricated terms, such as Molecular Frequency Discrimination (MFD) and Harmonic Induction Discrimination (HID)...and claiming them scientific is proof enough of fraudulent tendencies. Also noteworthy is you cannot prove something doesn't work....if it has never been proved to work, in the first place.

What would you consider sufficient proof of something NOT being a fraud or con? There is no validation from the scientific or electronic communities that are supporting these claims 


Your rational observing seems to be selective  and tainted to fit your belief. I prefer facts rather than belief, or imagination.

I didn't claim the terms were Scientific. I said they were applied to these methods by scientist. I didn't invent the terms as you seem to erroneously suggest.

I have started posting comments from actual users of LRL's. These consumers are the best evidence that at least the products I build, use, and sell, are not a con, or fraud. Unlike you, I have no argument with proven success.  Dell

Here is the link again.  Enjoy!

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« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 06:06:58 pm by Dell_Winders »
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« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2010, 06:22:25 pm »
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if you want to FART around with crap go get a couple or brazing rods for about 50 cents each use one end to bend a 90 degree bend about 6" from the end and make it about 18 inches so for the cost of $1 lousy buck you have your own LTL  why pay scavengers and parasites when you can make your own wake up people dont be conned by blood sucking parasites full of Bullshit.
Hey if your really hard up and cant afford  a dollar goto yuor local tip and scounge a couple of clothes hangers and bend them into shape it wont cost a brass razoo and you cut out the crook   hehehe

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« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 06:30:08 pm by Alan Hassell »
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« Reply #48 on: January 24, 2010, 06:32:44 pm »
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Some people do make their own LRL's. There is nothing wrong in that.   I hope you have success with yours.  Dell

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« Reply #49 on: January 24, 2010, 06:42:35 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Alan Hassell
if you want to FART around with crap go get a couple or brazing rods for about 50 cents each use one end to bend a 90 degree bend about 6" from the end and make it about 18 inches so for the cost of $1 lousy buck you have your own LTL  why pay scavengers and parasites when you can make your own wake up people dont be conned by blood sucking parasites full of Bullshit.
Hey if your really hard up and cant afford  a dollar goto yuor local tip and scounge a couple of clothes hangers and bend them into shape it wont cost a brass razoo and you cut out the crook   hehehe


Good suggestion. Evidently, Mr. Winders himself believes the garbage he spews. Sad, so very sad to see a con-man in action

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