[x] Welcome at THunting.com!

A fun place to talk about Metal Detecting, Treasure Hunting & Prospecting. Here you can share finds and experience with thousands of members from all over the world

Join us and Register Now - Its FREE & EASY

THunting.com
Treasure Hunting & Metal Detecting Community
   
Advanced Search
*
Welcome, Guest! Please login or register HERE - It is FREE and easy.
Only registered users can post and view images on our message boards.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
Or Login Using Social Network Account
News:
Pages:  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8   Go Down
Print
Share this topic on FacebookShare this topic on Del.icio.usShare this topic on DiggShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on Twitter
Tags:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline goldigger
Silver Member
*

Join Date: Jun, 2009
Thank you4

Activity
0%
Male
Canada
Posts: 1125
Referrals: 0

5400.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Bounty  Hunter and several more.
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2009, 07:43:34 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Teddi14;

Guess tone differences, is about right... my machines don't use multiple tones, its there or its not. Sometimes presents itself differently, of course.

Incidentally, you quoted TEK, my niece was called Tekki, as a child, for Electa (which is actually spelled Electra.) Still gets called Tekki, occasionally.

I have another question for GoldDigger1950.... ground balance is a form of discriminate, yes?

goldigger

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg42973.html#msg42973




Logged

goldigger

Offline GoldDigger1950
The Old Man and the Soil
Global Moderator
Platin Member
*****

Just call me GD.
The Old Man and the Soil
Join Date: Jun, 2009
Thank you225

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 11219
Referrals: 12

47848.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Garrett Groundhog ADS, Garrett Sea Hunter, Bounty Hunter Tracker IV, Bounty Hunter Pioneer 505,Minelab Eldorado Mk II, Tesoro Compadre, Tesoro Tiger Shark & A Few Home Brew Detectors
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2009, 08:06:09 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Ground balance is not discrimination at all. Setting the ground balance eliminates background noise and has no effect on targets. Discrimination allows you to eliminate selective targets from your responses. That's a big difference right there. The actual method for accomplishing each is also vastly different.

A waveform return with ground balance will eliminate the background noise of the non-target response. The discrimination circuitry eliminates the target by notching out selected target responses from the waveform.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg42977.html#msg42977




Logged

It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.
Let's Talk Treasure!

Offline goldigger
Silver Member
*

Join Date: Jun, 2009
Thank you4

Activity
0%
Male
Canada
Posts: 1125
Referrals: 0

5400.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Bounty  Hunter and several more.
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2009, 08:16:37 pm »
Go Up Go Down

GoldDigger1950;

It makes sense, BUT, if my "ground," containing a high amount of magnetite, is balanced, how can I discern the difference, in differing levels of magnetite?? It sounds like an oxymoron.

"First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is...."  Funny

IF I am hunting nuggets and balance out the magnetite bearing "ground," that might be good, BUT (sounds like a motor bike) the magnetite and the gold have opposite effects, this has to interplay with ground balance.  No no!


goldigger

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg42978.html#msg42978




Logged

goldigger

Offline GoldDigger1950
The Old Man and the Soil
Global Moderator
Platin Member
*****

Just call me GD.
The Old Man and the Soil
Join Date: Jun, 2009
Thank you225

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 11219
Referrals: 12

47848.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Garrett Groundhog ADS, Garrett Sea Hunter, Bounty Hunter Tracker IV, Bounty Hunter Pioneer 505,Minelab Eldorado Mk II, Tesoro Compadre, Tesoro Tiger Shark & A Few Home Brew Detectors
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2009, 08:22:22 pm »
Go Up Go Down

You posed that question to me already and I dodged it on purpose. However, asking it twice gets you the technical answer. The phase shift of a background of magnetite is constant while the phase shift from a chunk of it is not. Even if you eliminate the magnetite in the ground, you will still find a large chunk of it if you don't have your discriminate set. You see, when a mineral is in the ground it is usually there for a great area at a relatively predictable density. That means the phase shift is constant over the range of that mineral which could be miles or merely yards. Ground balance shifts the fundamental frequency to match the shift. It doesn't take much but it does eliminate the false return from the ground or a hole - if it's set right.

Ground balancing is not discrimination but if it helps you to understand it, then think of it as if it is. It really is only mildly related in practice and markedly different electronically.

Look at it this way. If they were the same, why have two methods for controlling it? Because they are not the same. That's why.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg42984.html#msg42984




« Last Edit: August 11, 2009, 08:27:13 pm by GoldDigger1950 »
Logged

It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.
Let's Talk Treasure!

Offline outback
Internet Pirate
Gold Member
*

Internet Pirate
Join Date: Oct, 2006
Thank you11

Activity
0%
Male
Canada
Posts: 3374
Referrals: 9

1555.00 Gold
View Inventory

WWW Awards

Tesoro Cibola
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2009, 08:25:00 pm »
Go Up Go Down

The amount of minerals in the soil varies from location to location. Sometimes the composition of minerals change within a small amount of area. Other locations, the mineral composition in the soil will be fairly consistent over a large area. The type of  minerals contained in the soil will also vary according to location. For instance, one of the more common minerals present in soil is iron, and some areas of the country have high concentrations present.
  Without some method of "ground balancing", the metal detector would be detecting all the minerals present in the soil, therefore not seeing through them, an thus, small or deeper targets would not override the signals produced by the minerals. In extremely mineralized soil, the metal detector would hardly be able to detect a target laying on the surface of the soil.
   Ground balancing the detector is simply, the term used to describe the function of adjusting the metal detector to ignore the minerals in the soil so that they are not detected by the metal detector.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg42985.html#msg42985




Logged
Offline goldigger
Silver Member
*

Join Date: Jun, 2009
Thank you4

Activity
0%
Male
Canada
Posts: 1125
Referrals: 0

5400.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Bounty  Hunter and several more.
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2009, 08:49:43 pm »
Go Up Go Down

GoldDigger1950, outback;

You have both confirmed for me what I had reasoned, without the technical argument, that is:

IF I am looking for variations, in ground variations (of magnetite,) do not use ground balance!

Mapping the magnetite, in a gravel bar works, no matter the technical arguments, I have observed it in action (with a BFO too) where a friend mapped the edge of a concentration, marking it with coloured flagging. Then he proceeded to recover the gold, contained in that concentration.

The home-built BFO, did not have ground balance nor discriminate, obviously, and the gold was not detectable, being masked by the magnetite, as you have suggested.

Does anyone know the effect of ilmenite, on detection?

goldigger



Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg42994.html#msg42994




Logged

goldigger

Offline GoldDigger1950
The Old Man and the Soil
Global Moderator
Platin Member
*****

Just call me GD.
The Old Man and the Soil
Join Date: Jun, 2009
Thank you225

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 11219
Referrals: 12

47848.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Garrett Groundhog ADS, Garrett Sea Hunter, Bounty Hunter Tracker IV, Bounty Hunter Pioneer 505,Minelab Eldorado Mk II, Tesoro Compadre, Tesoro Tiger Shark & A Few Home Brew Detectors
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2009, 09:19:47 pm »
Go Up Go Down

As with any and all interferences, not knowing the size and density of the material will make that difficult to predict.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg43007.html#msg43007




Logged

It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.
Let's Talk Treasure!

Offline goldigger
Silver Member
*

Join Date: Jun, 2009
Thank you4

Activity
0%
Male
Canada
Posts: 1125
Referrals: 0

5400.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Bounty  Hunter and several more.
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2009, 11:18:34 pm »
Go Up Go Down

GoldDigger1950;

A couple of hints... but I don't know SG, offhand:

greenish black particles similar to magnetite but dull looking, as big as 5mm X 3mm, possibly bigger;

weakly magnetic;

a compound of titanium, but heavy;

persists with black sand and garnets;

is used as a filler for drilling mud, as it wears longer than most material;

the ore of titanium.

Try Googling.... if I had some separated, I could send a sample. Some day surely. How much you need to play with?

goldigger



Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg43054.html#msg43054




Logged

goldigger

Offline GoldDigger1950
The Old Man and the Soil
Global Moderator
Platin Member
*****

Just call me GD.
The Old Man and the Soil
Join Date: Jun, 2009
Thank you225

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 11219
Referrals: 12

47848.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Garrett Groundhog ADS, Garrett Sea Hunter, Bounty Hunter Tracker IV, Bounty Hunter Pioneer 505,Minelab Eldorado Mk II, Tesoro Compadre, Tesoro Tiger Shark & A Few Home Brew Detectors
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2009, 01:02:14 am »
Go Up Go Down

I really don't want any dirt sent to me. Australia has plenty already but thanks for asking.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg43068.html#msg43068




Logged

It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.
Let's Talk Treasure!

Offline goldigger
Silver Member
*

Join Date: Jun, 2009
Thank you4

Activity
0%
Male
Canada
Posts: 1125
Referrals: 0

5400.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Bounty  Hunter and several more.
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2009, 01:12:39 am »
Go Up Go Down

goldDigger1950;

NOT DIRT!

And I might pick out as much as a cup from 3 - 4 litres of black sand... oh, I see, you want just the gold not what it comes in. Great

Bet Oz doesn't have ilmenite, you could have to pay for importation.  Funny

I consider it valuable dirt, because there is fine gold in the black sand.... it would have to be leached out, it is that fine. Actually it is fairly easy to separate from black sand, the magnetite holds a residual "charge" of magnetism and will clump to itself and wash away, leaving EVERYTHING else.

When I get too much saved, I will have to do something about it.  No no!

goldigger

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,6396.msg43072.html#msg43072




Logged

goldigger

Print
Pages:  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8   Go Up
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines | Sitemap
Copyright THunting.com