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Offline seldom
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« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2012, 10:33:07 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Viracocha
After much deliberation I have decided to "Shine On" and continue this free information session despite any derogatory comments.  I'm not afraid of constructive criticism by any means, in fact I invite.




Then post some info and stop trying to make out like your a victim of criticism. If your looking to start a argument you have a good start I suggest you get back on topic before things get bad. 

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Offline Homefire
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« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2012, 10:55:03 pm »
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I'm with ya, keep posting.   We want to hear it all.

Well At Least I do.



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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2012, 05:34:46 am »
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Quote:Posted by Viracocha
After much deliberation I have decided to "Shine On" and continue this free information session despite any derogatory comments.  I'm not afraid of constructive criticism by any means, in fact I invite.  But hey, as this is free and you as the reader can, if not fully satisfied, apply for a refund!

Let's get something straight here, mate. You came here with your "free information" and have three times apologized for making errors in that information. Then, while your opening was very poetic - sky blue and all - it is technically inaccurate when applied to the science of detector coils. I happen to know a bit about them.

Then you continue this with partly correct and partly way off information telling everyone not to bother with science because you know better. You said, "I personally love getting to the real truth regardless of what is being advertised.  What is interesting are the claims that defy science and math.. those ones I find the most fun."

As a regular user here as well as a Global Moderator, I am entitled to read your words and comment on them. Just like any other user. At the first sign of criticism of your theories, you fly off the handle and go berserk over my asking you for clarification on why you believe everyone but you uses the wrong formulas and science. If you're that thin skinned, perhaps you really ought to look at starting your own forum or a blog page where you can throw your ideas out there and only allow those who stroke your fragile ego to reply. As an electronics engineer with decades of experience, I find your comments here to be only about 60% fact and 20% relevant. So far. It's always possible you could redeem yourself if you finish your comments.

At the very least you can explain to everyone why blue sky and atmospheric diffraction relate to metal detecting and coils.

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Offline ViracochaTopic starter
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« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2012, 10:20:28 am »
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OK where was I ... oh yes I was  touching on SEF coils at this point I think... By the very design itself (But would still love to get one under the X-ray) It seems that DETECH has pushed the envelope, or I mean the coils Rx and Tx together as to get them intersecting as close to the axis as possible to get the deepest section getting as close as the depth of a concentric and still keeping the characteristics of a double D coil of precision.

  But and I do mean this is a big butt.. I think they may have pushed the design past the possible and have created an potentially fragile detection field.  Many of the posts out there are about equal on the love hate.  I think that the QC of the company have not been paying attention to the cooling process in the manufacturing part and the curing of the resin of the coils have been putting quite a few out of null.  Remember that the Induction balance is a delicate thing  and can be easily out of balance with the contraction and expansion of something as simple as the type of resin used in setting the coil.  Also environmental conditions can sometimes alter the coil..."Heat"  Especially you V3 guys out there are the most sensitive to it.

  I have ordered the coil from KellyCo and have a little "Hall Effect" device that one of the EE's put together for me that I can use with a multimeter to get an idea of what the tx coil field actually looks like.  I don't really have it calibrated but I compare the field of a similar sized mono coil and it gives me a good bench mark to compare it with.  For Joe public you can use a simple MDF frame to mount your MD head on and wave around a silver ball or half dollar if you have one, to get an idea of the detection field.  I just like to be a little more thorough and find the true field created by the coil.

A side note here.. the company is in Bulgaria and here is a snip it of an article about metal detecting in Bulgaria

Possession and use of a metal detector in Bulgaria requires registration with the Culture Ministry and lack of such registration was a crime, Culture Minister Vezhdi Rashidov said on February 10 in reply to a letter from Ilia Iliev, head of the Bulgarian National Federation of Metal-detecting.

funny to have a metal detecting company in a country that makes it illegal to MD without a permit... where do they test the coils without getting shot at! lol

     I hope that they did succeed in the design, because it would be the deepest Double D coil made so far.  I still feel that it needs to be tested with different frequencies to see if it alters the field being created.. I don't know what the outcome will be, but I am curious to find out.

Posted on: July 05, 2012, 10:01:17 AM
Quote:Posted by Adrian See
OK good bad or otherwise what is the best coil for finding gold rings & nuggets for the MXT pro Grin let me know and ill be buying one


Well first thing I would like to say is that the MXT Pro comes highly recommended by a fellow who personal knows a few of the EE's that worked on the V3 project from whites and is now retired and has a little shop of his own and is just way too educated about MDs for his own good.  He says and I quote "that there is a lifetime MD in the whites line-up with a stable frequency and great build"  I don't personally have one, but a recommendation by this guy based on his experience in actually building and designing md's... I value it!  Now if my wife would also agree and let me add it to my gun rack of dirt fishing rods that would be nice too... any ways  back to the question I think a few questions need to be asked first... what soil conditions do you have? Or better yet do you have an idea of the soil matrix ie trash content mineralization ect. what size of gold do you hunt for ... smallest size is what I am after, and what is your swing speed with your gate when you MD?  If you can give me that I can give you a pretty good idea of what should be the best for your hunting.  Or you can go to a MD group meeting in your area and ask the guys what they are having success with.. the only problem with the later is that it's like going to the dock and asking what lure and what location is the best to go fishing.  Good fishing guys don't tend to give that info out because they have worked so hard to get it themselves

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2012, 12:20:05 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Viracocha
OK where was I ...

I knew you could continue. Just be aware that I'm watching with interest as this is my favorite subject.

By the way, I did offer a detailed method for developing Smith charts for coils. Some time ago, Xavier was asking about the field generated and I showed him how to use a plastic ruler and a sensor to do the measurements. I didn't use a Hall effect sensor because some of those need motion to work and I didn't want to make it hard to use the ruler. The basic setup was a PC sound input and a coil from a solenoid. Works great and no motion required. You can hold it steady and do measurements with a ruler.

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« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2012, 12:45:12 pm »
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Quote:Posted by GoldDigger1950
The basic setup was a PC sound input and a coil from a solenoid. Works great and no motion required. You can hold it steady and do measurements with a ruler.


But you will require to download a PC scope.The one that I found to be the best was this one

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I have version 1.31 so there could be a newer version available.  I used a relay coil to do the test and that worked great.

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« Reply #36 on: July 05, 2012, 01:47:02 pm »
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I think I like your system better and will make it a build target for next weekend.  This would be interesting to compare results of both tests.

     OK this next area .. And I'm jumping forward a bit, but its that interesting is the future of MD'n.  One of the EE's I find myself chatting too more so than I should (passion for something has no time limit) seems to think, and I agree, and keep in mind this is theory and has no prototype as of yet, ... seems to thing the future of metal detecting will not be swinging, but be pumping a focal field up and down within the soil.  Energy intensive parabolic guided fields... several.. three I think.  The purpose is to create an eddy current strong enough to raise the temperature of a conductive object to effectively measure the temperature change, based of course on a tonne of variables ie. soil heat dispersion, moisture, size, depth surrounding conductive materials ect.  As the chart states above there is a greater difference between heat conductivity between gold and aluminum than electrical, and this method might be able to... if it actually works, tell with greater target id, discriminate between gold rings and pull tabs and foil.

Popcorn thought here generated by a couple Killkennys and a Friday's afternoon at the lab with a few EEs

Would love to get some input

Posted on: July 05, 2012, 01:19:42 PM
I'm down for a bit.. heading off for a fishing trip but will be back on Monday

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