Why is the sky blue!

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #10 on: July 03, 2012, 02:41:13 pm »

This is going to be a brief overview about coils, but it will give you an inside idea to make a better educated choice about coils and remove some of the mystery. OK I think I left off at Orthogonal coils (two box). A good example of mechanical Induction Balance. What I mean is this... the Tx coil in front gives a magnetic wave pattern we have all seen in school using metal fillings and earth magnets... well between the lines of metal filings are spaces.. this is a null space... the Rx coil is designed to be in between the magnetic waves generated by the Tx coil so as to not cancel out the waves being generated and then read the slight disturbance created from deep items in the soil.... I'm going to try to see if I can find a picture of the field pattern that explains this a bit better... no luck or I just cant seem to find one.. ok I will draw one

Posted on: July 03, 2012, 12:58:29 PM

Ok no jokes and yes its bad... but it does give a visual of the field waves and how the Rx is positioned in the null of the waves so as not to interfere with the transmission.

Now to understand how and why a two box deep coil set up can only be used in a low mineralized desert type area, you have to understand "Ground Effect" I'll give you a little overview.... take a balloon and fill it with water.. not full but half.. this would be an example of an air test field pattern... Ok ok not a true example of one, but for this one it will work. Now lower it to the ground so that some of the weight is on the ground... see how the balloon compresses? That is what your ground does to the field the Tx coil is creating. I t compresses the field lines.. Well if the fields lines are compressed too much.. say in high mineralized soil conditions, they push them into the field of the Rx coil and turns your detector into a huge noise maker.. This makes the detector out of Induction Balance... therefor useless in trashy or high mineralized soil conditions.

Posted on: July 03, 2012, 01:25:04 PM

So someone in the back says "OK then can I use this detector to find deep coins say 24 inches merc dime?... ass stated in the earlier part... you can charge the eddy current, but it still has to make it back. I think that most of the dedicated two box detectors are some what missing the point and are trying to please everyone instead of focusing on what the idea is about two box detectors.. lets take for example Fisher Gemini 3.. Crystal controlled (which means not a natural sine wave but a modified or box type wave.. better for target id, but take more power to generate).. and its frequency is 82kHz?.. how is that getting deeper?... oh look closely they are using twice the power of say a regular MD .. 2x 8 AA sets and power use more than twice that of an e-trac... so they are flooding the ground with a fog of very high frequency field... you could find the gold filling of a cockroach if the ground was sawdust!... The better design would be lower frequency.. much lower and focus on natural sine wave... can go just a bit farther.. and go for silver and high conductive metals....copper ect...

You want deep gold?... get a back ho and scoop out a buch of dirt and wave you MD at the bottom... ta da deep gold

This type of design by Fisher is going to barely out perform a well tuned MXT Pro for a gold ring.. it might get deeper on a flake... but you have to dig allot of flake to justify buying this configuration...

Don't get me wrong... Two box detectors do have a place... deep high conductive good sized metal in low mineralized ground....

Now on to the next coil...

Posted on: July 03, 2012, 02:15:42 PM

Hahaha I can just see.. a line-up of guys at the Rent -All "I'm sorry sir, you want to rent this 18' backho for what again?"

Posted on: July 03, 2012, 02:27:29 PM

I'm not picking on Fisher for any reason, I just arbitrarily pick this one... I don't know the specs of all the ones available out there, but feel free to send in some specs of the ones in the field right now and we can take a look at them

Posted on: July 03, 2012, 02:31:55 PM

OK the next coil to come under the spot light is the SEF coil.. Symmetrical Electromegnetic Field coil, or aka "Butterfly coil"... but befor that we must look at Overlap Coplanar, Concentric and Double D so as to make sense of an SEF coil.

Stay tuned..

lol I have a feeling that at some point some guy in bow-tie is going to show up at my door steps and threaten to permanently put my coils out of balance or cover my yard with rusty nails if I don't stop telling people about the truth of coils... and revile the man behind the curtain

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #11 on: July 03, 2012, 07:46:27 pm »

Hey I found a manufacturer that seems to be on the right track with their deep seeking detectors.

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Posted on: July 03, 2012, 07:39:14 PM

Alright lets begin with Overlap coils ... aka Coplanar.. looks like two of the circles in the Olympic symbol. Two circles that intersect each other.. oops diaper change brb,,

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #12 on: July 03, 2012, 07:56:12 pm »

Err You Mean OO coil?

Co Planer do not Over Lap. Huh?

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #13 on: July 04, 2012, 01:00:13 am »

tickle me pink and call me lucy.. you are right and wrong... I did mean "OO" coil, but coplanar does overlap. The transmit coil is folded inward, and the receive coil lies across the Rx section. The folded portion generates a smaller reverse transmit field about the receive coil that cancels the larger transmit field. This was a fav in the 70s. Whites had it and someone else, I can't recall.

Posted on: July 04, 2012, 12:30:29 AM

Anyways.. with all the circular shaped coils, the deepest and strongest area is down the middle of the axis of the field being generated. But that is only for one or the other... not both. If the Rx coil is not under, over or in the axis balanced, it will not see the eddy current at the deepest part. In overlapping coils the greatest sensitivity is in the overlapping area.. not the rest of the coil. The field still exists in the other part of the coil, it's just not being used.

So now in comes the Double D coil. designers try to get the axis of both loops as close together as possible so the overlapping area can be as deep as possible.. pretty close but not quite there. What it lost in depth does give it an interesting detection field or precision of field. As was mentioned earlier for a mono loop coil used in the old BFO or today's PI, the detection field is like a fat parabola under and above.. depending on the design.. the coil... with a Double D, the detection field is more like a droopy long water balloon down the middle. The bonus is better target separation in trashy soil matrix. As much as the manufacturers would have you believe otherwise, it's not the be-all and end-all of coils. This is just another coil tool for another type of soil matrix. If your in Australia with unbelievable high soil mineralization or beach hunts in the worst beach areas where young people go and drink beer all summer long and there is not a trash can insight.. Or your searching what used to be the city dump and is now a park, the double D is right for you. If your just after plain depth... and I mean plain depth.. you can't get deeper than a mono loop from a PI... the one big draw back.. discrimination and target ID for deep targets are pipe dreams.. just dig it! if you want to know what it is.

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #14 on: July 04, 2012, 05:45:52 am »

	Quote:	Posted by Viracocha
I did mean "OO" coil, but coplanar does overlap.

Which brands overlap, mate? Enlighten us.

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It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #15 on: July 04, 2012, 08:27:41 am »

By Logic a True Coplanar Coil by name , all coils would reside on the same plane.

By name a Concentric Coil would be a Coplanar Coil.

Whites, Bounty Hunter and even Garrett have used the coil you discribe.

I see Carl Moreland discribes them (4b) coils as Coplanars as well in his Paper.

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #16 on: July 04, 2012, 09:25:26 am »

Well by right, the name does imply sharing the same plane.. The above coil was used by the old Coinmaster 3 TRDX. By pure physics, if the Tx coil and the Rx coil did not cross but shared the same plane... then it would be as effective as a bat with an ear infection.

Posted on: July 04, 2012, 09:18:57 AM

Correction.... unless the Tx coil and the Rx coil are different sizes and the smaller is within the axis of the other... which would describe a concentric coil..

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #17 on: July 04, 2012, 09:27:04 am »

They work for TR applications.

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #18 on: July 04, 2012, 09:30:17 am »

Homefire... I love the picture of the x-rayed coil.. do you happen to have more? That would be great getting film of all the coils out there just to see what old design they are trying to pass off as new technology

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	Re: Why is the sky blue! « Reply #19 on: July 04, 2012, 09:45:46 am »

I have a pile of Coil info but most has been Robbed from other sources.

Carls paper was too large to post.

Let me see what I can do about that.

PM me your E-Mail Addy.

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