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Offline MetalMasterTopic starter
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« on: August 17, 2012, 08:03:09 am »
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What is the future of Metal Detecting as a hobby?

Please read on and form your own opinion of either to get involved or not.

I have read much controversy over allowing or disallowing metal detecting as a hobby. Many places are being added to the list to be disallowed.

There is a movement by the archeologists with there lobbyists to ban or stop metal detecting as a hobby. They have the resources and backing by some of the private sector to do this as a great force.

 We have not the finances or lobbyists to fight legally such an organized movement in my opinion. But what we do have is an opportunity at this time to do something at this time of a legal nature to change this. The cost is zero.

 I personally have already started this action. What do I speak of?

Each time I have a person approach me running for any position of public office during this current election time I do the following.

First I say I will listen to what they wish to do in office, if they will then listen to what I would like to see changed. They always say ok.

 One it gives me a chance for a one on one audience with a current or incumbent official. This can be done without any travel or cost to do so for out of pocket expenses.

Two it gives us a chance to spread informed information over are problem and are rights being taken away. The seeds planted could grow and spread to change things.

EXAMPLE:

 I explained to one man running for office in question form of a question after listening to him. I asked if you where in one of are city parks and while walking on the paths in the park. You shuffled the dirt with your feet and by chance uncovered a quarter dated say 1940, would you pick it up and keep it? He says why sure. I asked? Did you know you just broke the Law? He got very defensive and a little upset. Then he asks just how did I do that? I explained you just dug in the dirt and uncovered an artifact and kept it. He says that quarter is no older than my self becoming more defensive all the time. I said I agree with you but the new laws make what he just had done a crime. I spoke of how other misinformation is being used to cloud the perception of are hobby and take it away from us. I explained the movement of the archeologists to the best of my ability.

 He says that is not right and this has gone too far. He asks me to send him info on the current issue. I emailed links to different sites that show the issue. The following is one link I personally like.

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http://detectingrights.com/


 In just a few minutes you can see I made an advocate for are cause. I have done this several times already. Now if you multiply that by the number of people in are current hobby. Who could get involved? See the possibilitiesí as people are running for office to be either reelected are elected for the first time. We have a great chance and opportunity if we all get involved and keep a level head and present are case with dignity. We get a chance to present are side to many people at no cost and a one on one audience. I see this as a great opportunity. Please get involved and repost this with my permission on as many sites as possible.

Do this for the future of metal detecting as hobby. There are always two sides to every story and this is a chance to tell are side.

Thank you for your time reading.

MetalMaster


 


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Offline seldom
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« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 09:35:01 am »
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Archeologists could care less about you digging a dime in the park or a ring on the beach,your fighting the wrong enemy.  The groups pushing to stop detecting on public property are the beatify the city groups the school boards park boards  etc  not the archies. Archeologists want the academic world to control all historical sites and in some cases I must agree with them I have seen battle fields grave yards old forts sites look like a mine field after outlaw detectoreist  have hit the place.

Talking to politicians is a good idea but get the facts right before you do more damage then good   

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Offline MetalMasterTopic starter
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« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 07:50:37 pm »
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Seldom

 The facts are it was the arches that lobbied to stop metal detecting in Louisville parks. It passed in the senate (HB 352) but they squashed it in the house. This is a age old battle here and they brought in a archeologist's as a expert witness to squash it.

 So before you Seldom are anyone else do more harm than good get the facts. All things that happen are not the same as in your neck of the woods.

That is why I only described what occurred here in are parks in Louisville Ky. Then I suggested contact your local officials as they run for office in your area with your concerns.

 Or we can all just seat back and piss and moan about the good old days.

See the following links for more info.

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http://detectingrights.com/louisville-ky-needs-your-support/


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http://detectingrights.com/city-parks-closed-louisville-kentucky/


 So to be clear what I suggested is contact your officials as they approach you running for office. State your local concerns in a dignified manner as I stated before on metal detecting. When well you have a better chance to tell your side.

 Are do nothing out of fear. Look around and see where that is going?
They are telling there side this your chance to speak up.

 In your area it could be another group speaking out against metal detecting.
The point is take a chance and speak up for the hobby. As I said before plant a good seed on the HOBBY with the people running for office.

 Do not turn this into anything but a promotion of Metal Detecting.

Get your facts together before you speak out.

I did.



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« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 08:23:04 pm »
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Quote:Posted by MetalMaster
Get your facts together before you speak out.




No I don't think so you sir are clueless on what needs to be done and how to go about getting it done. You and your ranting is doing more harm then good. There are 100's of people and groups out there working to change the laws and stop new ones and one loud mouth with the wrong facts and info can set them backs 100's of hours.

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Offline BitburgAggie_7377
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« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2012, 08:36:36 pm »
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       The fact is that the Archaeologists are just ONE of the groups that want to shut us down.  The environmentalist are  another.  Misguided historical preservationists are another.  People reacting to the irresponsible behavior exhibited by "metal detectorists", "treasure hunters", "prospectors", etc on reality TV are another.  The point is it is NOT just one group.   They all have to be dealt with individually and collectively....AND they like to use laws and restrictions other groups were responsible for if it can help them come out on top.   All of the groups, not just the Archaeologists and Historical preservationist will use ARPA (which is where the 50 year standard comes from.....all your most recent legislation does is decide to apply "federal standards" to the local situation).   Likewise, all of them, including the archaeologists and the historical societies will use inventive interpretation of environmental laws and regulations if that will help them reach their ends.
       The facts are there are archaeologists on our side AND their are archaeologists against us.  Ditto with the historical preservationist and even some environmentalists (although my personal opinion is that the percentage of those for us is less than the percentage of either of the other two groups).  
       Your illustration about the coin from the 1940's is a good one because it hits home to people just how unreasonable the ARPA based regulations can be---especially when applied by bureaucrats that don't know what is and is not "historically significant".   The bureaucrats who administer the laws and regulations (and to a great extent the politicians at all levels that write them) take the position that it is better to err on the side of caution which means err in favor of the side that made a loud enough noise to get the law/regulation passed to start with.  If you don't know what is historically significant and you don't want to lose your job because you allowed someone to dig up and remove something covered by the law then simply make it against the regulations to remove anything that MIGHT possibly be covered.

As for Seldom, he has spent a long time promoting and defending the hobby and its practitioners so you might want to consider what he says even if you know it doesn't apply in your specific situation.    

Those against us win in part because they form alliances with other groups that also have something to gain either directly from the specific regulation in question or from gaining the support of our opposition on some other matter (say restricting metal detecting in an environmentally sensitive nesting habitat).  In the meantime we still have a tendency to fly off half-cocked and react to anything/anyone that we perceive as being less than 100% in our court.

We will win by standing up for the hobby AND by building coalitions with others (such as fossil collectors, arrowhead collectors, rockhounds, campers, fishers, people who like to collect drift wood, etc)

BA


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« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 08:38:54 pm by BitburgAggie_7377 »
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« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2012, 08:41:01 pm »
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Seldom, You and Metal Master both have points. The "take nothing but pictures and leave nothing but footprints" mentality is contagious in an Eco-correct time such as this. As for Archeologist. My Daughter came back from College and called me a "pot holer" which at the time was not true as Then I collected only points and never dug more than an inch or two to recover them. Now I dig holes and cover them up and technically by the academic definition I am a potholer! Yes there is pressure to shut the hobby down coming from some areas but the hobby will survive so long as the rights of private property owners are respected by the government. Take a good look at how it works in England and you will see how it could go for the U.S...........There the state owns all artifacts over a certain value until they agree to give them up....  

As for Archaeologist as conservationist, read the book The World of the Past. by Jacquetta Hawkes a history of Archaeology in the Mid East and around the world. So far Archaeology has been one big treasure hunt with very little science but lots of theories many which are deemed false by their peers just a few years later.

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Offline MetalMasterTopic starter
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« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2012, 09:11:43 pm »
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OK I see your sides of the point.
That is why I said voice your concerns for your area.

Each case is different for that area, I attached the links that supported what happened in Louisville.
Not ranting but facts.
My point was it happened that way here in our town and I stated so.

I then said promote the hobby.  By planting a good seed in favor of the hobby in your area.
Anything wrong with that?

I was not ranting just pointing out a chance to promote the hobby to the elected officials before they here of the hobby from someone else lobbying against it.

If you lose sight of that chance you cannot see the forest for the trees any longer.
I simply stated promote the hobby to the elected officials in your area............

If we do not speak out when ever we have the chance for the hobby who will?
I simply tried to bring this chance to light to speak out and do some good.

That should not be a problem with anyone here.


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« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 09:18:37 pm by MetalMaster »
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2012, 09:23:53 pm »
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Quote:Posted by gambol1
So far Archaeology has been one big treasure hunt with very little science but lots of theories many which are deemed false by their peers just a few years later.



I agree gambol my point is that the archies are not the only or even the biggest enemy. Hell truth be known we are our own worse enemy. I and you too I am sure have seen holes that you could put a truck in left open by artifact hunters or holes and removed grass in public parks until we police ourselves every group in the world will be after us.

Private property is getting harder and harder to get permission to hunt mainly because the owners have a bad taste in there mouth when it comes to treasure hunters once burned its hard to get them to talk with you.

Metal this is not a hobby to me 70% of my income comes from treasure hunting and I have a very good income. If we lose anymore then I am out of work you and the other hobbyist can take up fishing but fishing want let me live the life I have build for myself so yes I promote detecting every chance I get and have since 1972. 

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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2012, 10:03:46 pm »
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OK enough is enough.

This was started with the thought of promoting metal detecting and planting good seeds.
It has turned into he said she said I want etc...


So now it's attack each other and tell us to take up fishing etc....
I wanna hobby, I make a living off it.



Wow !

Any moderator pull this topic I started with my permission. PLEASE

We seem to have trouble banning together even to plant good thoughts of the hobby.
Seems we have special interest of our own. We do not need to worry about other groups.

I give up. You win. Not sure what you won. But then again you started out attacking me by saying be careful in the beginning. Did you ever read the facts of what happened here in Louisville

It was a good idea. OK you squashed it so delete this post. You win now you can say so and promote your good income. This topic was started to promote metal Detecting, not any one persons interest.

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« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 10:53:20 pm by seldom »
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« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2012, 10:57:09 pm »
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MetalMaster

Your the problem here you refuse to listen to anyone else we do it your way are you get mad and leave so be it want help?

The post will not be deleted because of forum policy.

Posted on: August 17, 2012, 10:52:27 PM
Quote:Posted by MetalMaster
Did you ever read the facts of what happened here in Louisville



Its been happening for 40 years all over the world but you did zero to help till it hit close to home now you want a soap box to cry from I don't feel sorry for you, your the one who waited to long to take action.

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