Using FLIR for metal detecting. Any advice.

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	Using FLIR for metal detecting. Any advice. « on: June 01, 2012, 09:50:06 am »

Hello. Does anybody have advice/experience on using Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) (night vision) to find metal in the soil or sand?
My theory is that if a wrench (or the kings gold) was in the ground it would be heated up by the sun, along with the soil. When the sun started going down the soil would cool faster than the metal, and the FLIR would note the anomaly.
Any thoughts?

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Homefire

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	Re: Using FLIR for metal detecting. Any advice. « Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 11:04:07 am »

We have a pile of info here some place on this stuff.

Some folks think that Gold Produces a Aurora buy it's self. I don't think so.

Going under the Idea that Gold will hold heat longer and be seen by a IR camera is a NO GO because under the Alluvial stuff and Rock it would not be strong enough.

Gold has qualities that are sorta cool with IR.

NASA, the Military use Gold Flashing on Helmet Visors to keep the Heat away from the inside of Helmets.

Gold Flashed Foil is used on Satellites to protect Heat sensitive areas.

Most folks don't realize that Digital Cameras are IR sensitive.

In this Crummy Video here you will see that a WEB camera can see IR. You will see that the IR is Reflected by Aluminum Foil. You will see that the 14K Gold Ring will NOT REFLECT or Respond to the IR.

IR source was a Common Remote control for a TV.

With the Same Camera I can see out to 50ft or so with the Light Sourse.

This Crummy Video show the IR reflecting off Aluminum foil just fine.

It shows that The 14K gold Ring Does NOT reflect the Light.

It shows the None IR Reflective Material does not respond to IR.

It shows the Remote Control is in fact Producing the IR light and Camera is Seeing it.

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http://i371.photobucket.com/albums/oo160/berquistj/IRTEST.jpg


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	Re: Using FLIR for metal detecting. Any advice. « Reply #2 on: July 01, 2012, 06:40:47 pm »

Hey homefire! I haven't been on here in a year I think. Good to see everyone still here. Anyway from all I have seen homefire is correct. I do believe IR can be used time see old structures. I think they have used IR to find old fort installations. I am sure a search of just this forum will turn up plenty of reading.

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Danny

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	Re: Using FLIR for metal detecting. Any advice. « Reply #3 on: July 11, 2012, 02:15:32 am »

FLIR is a great tool, I got to work on the systems that the military was using back when it first came out back in 1974 on military aircraft. What is on the open market for civilians is not even close to what I got to work on. You could park a car in a vacant parking lot and let it set for 20 minutes and then go back to the spot with the FLIR and you could still see the imprint of the car after 2 hours. We used this system to follow submarines in the ocean and could get trail readings from ships that had passed several hours prior. Information on that is still classified on the actual times it will give heat readings on different objects which is still being used for tracking movements of patrols on the ground. Metal that is heated by the sun that is buried under ground up to 2' will give off enough heat to tell what it is for about 2plus hours. So the answer to your question if FLIR could be used to find gold buried under ground is YES! But you would have to have the right people using it and know the signatures to actually do it.

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TheBryantFamilyChronicles

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	Re: Using FLIR for metal detecting. Any advice. « Reply #4 on: July 11, 2012, 07:22:00 am »

Good question.

There are passive and active IR technologies and the level of sophistication makes a big difference in how well you will see anything in the ground or elsewhere for that matter.

Based on wavelength, the IR signal should not be able to penetrate very deep. That's why they use GPR. Since heat transfer is rapid in most metals, I imagine that the temperature differential between the sand and metal would be present only for a short time after sunset.

My company owns a number of very sophisticated thermal cameras (military grade). I will try a few experiments in various soil types and get back with you. If it doesn't work for these cameras, it is not likely to work with a lower cost unit.

TBFC

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	Re: Using FLIR for metal detecting. Any advice. « Reply #5 on: July 11, 2012, 06:04:51 pm »

If'n the metal was underground... it would be the same temperature as the ground, itself.

Metal would have to be exposed to the sunlight to gain a higher temperature reading than the ground

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TheBryantFamilyChronicles

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	Re: Using FLIR for metal detecting. Any advice. « Reply #6 on: July 12, 2012, 09:54:11 am »

Correct Rational Observer, for the most part. However, when there is a temperature drop (like at sunset), the rate of change of temperature will be different for metal and soil. This will cause a period of time where there MAY be a temperature difference. The amount of change and the time it is detectable will be dependent on the type of metal and the soil. Eventually (and that could be in minutes),their temperature would the same.

I do not believe IR will detect very deep in soile due to the wavelength, so what I am saying is true only for near-surface objects. If the object is deep in the ground, the temperatures remain much more constant and the penetration of the IR sensor is insufficient anyway.

I would be interested to see what happens with soil that is rich in nutrients and decaying matter. The ground temperture may not be as stable as the temperature of the coin or other metal. Since I don't know this for sure, I am interested enough to test this.

I wont' be able to complete these tests, unfortunately, until the August timeframe. Too much work to do before then.

TBFC

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