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Offline Texas JayTopic starter
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« on: December 21, 2009, 03:04:30 pm »
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I've created this new topic so that we can share sources for KGC information with other members.  I hope you will pay special attention to where Capt. Jason James tells about his experiences with the White Camelias and the Bulldozers which were arms of the KGC after the Civil War ended.

***

Brown County, Texas historians and writers wrote that Jason W. James was Jesse W. James's
first cousin and that the two were nearly identical in appearance.
While saving the photo on this webpage to my private files, I
couldn't help but notice Jason's resemblance to Brownwood's Henry
Ford.

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http://www.dsloan.com/Auctions/A19/item-james-jason-two-titles.html


AUCTION 19
"A Confederate Rarity of the First Magnitude" (Parrish)

70. JAMES, Jason W. Two titles: (1) Memorable Events in the Life of
Captain Jason W. James. [Roswell, New Mexico?, 1911]. 150 pp., one
plate (photograph of author). 8vo, original gilt-lettered grey
cloth. Light soiling to cloth, otherwise very fine. Inscribed and
signed by James: "To Mr. R. B. Slight, With the compliments and best
wishes of the author. Jason W. James, Altura Ranch Tex., April 28th
1914." Exceedingly rare. (2) Memories and Viewpoints. Roswell:
Privately printed, 1928. 183 [1 blank] pp. 12mo, original gilt-
lettered grey cloth. Small snag on lower spine, otherwise fine.
Uncommon.

First edition of both vols. The 1911 work is exceedingly rare.
The only sales records we trace for the 1911 volume are the Norris
copy in 1948 and a copy sold privately by Jenkins for $1,750, the
latter described by Michael Parrish as "a Confederate rarity of the
first magnitude." Parrish describes James' work as "a
straightforward, literate reminiscence, filled with details about his
service in the Missouri militia in the Trans-Mississippi under
Sterling Price early in the war, and his subsequent experience as a
Confederate partisan cavalry officer operating along the western side
of the Mississippi, mainly in Louisiana under Captain J. C. Lea.
Fighting invading Yankee detachments as well as outlaw guerrillas,
James' men had a special taste for attacking units of Black Federal
troops stationed at various points along the river." The 1928 title
forms a companion volume to the preceding work. Some of the same
events are covered, but different points are brought out and some
experiences are new or greatly expanded. First title:Dornbusch
II:2863. Flake 4315a: "Hauled freight to Camp Floyd in 1858; recounts
the Mountain Meadows massacre." Howes J45: "Companion volume to item
below [Howes J46] covering boyhood, civil war and ranger activities,
ranching." Norris 3901. Second title: Adams, Herd 1148: "Scarce."
Graff 2190. Flake 4316. Howes J46: "Buffalo hunting; ranching on the
Rio Grande; with Johnston's Utah expedition in 1858; etc." Not in
Mattes (Platte River Road Narratives) or the Eberstadt modern
overlands list.

In 1858 at the age of fifteen the author (b. Missouri 1843-d.
Uvalde, Texas, 1933) travelled overland from Missouri to Salt Lake to
haul 6,000 pounds of freight to supply General Harney's troops
engaged in the "Mormon War." After reaching Provo and Salt Lake City,
James joined with Russell, Majors, and Waddell to Fort Leavenworth.
On this arduous trip James' feet were frozen when the party was
forced to lay up for three days between Fort Bridger and South Pass.
He recovered at Fort Laramie and describes trading with Sioux and
Cheyenne to obtain a pair of moccasins, the only type of footwear his
injured feet could tolerate. The following year he witnessed the
Pike's Peak Gold Rush when he travelled to Fort Bridger. In 1861
James enlisted with Kirtley's troops to drive the Kansas Jayhawkers
out of Missouri and rode with Quantrill, giving an officer's eye-
witness account of the Lawrence Massacre and Baxter Springs. During
the latter part of the War, James served in Mississippi and
Louisiana, and was one of the last officers to surrender (June 27,
1865).

During Reconstruction in Louisiana James helped organize the "Ku
Klux," White Camelias, and Bulldozers ("we had to work in such a way
that no evidence could be found against us"). He bluntly outlines the
intimidation and violence, including deadly shootouts he and his men
inflicted on white Republicans and their Black allies. He herded
sheep in Colorado Territory in 1874, and in 1883 drove a herd of
cattle from Delhi, Louisiana, to Orange, Texas. He joined Gillespie's
Texas Rangers the following year assisting in the apprehension of
murderers, horse and cattle thieves, and fence cutters. He later
worked on the railroad in East Texas and Louisiana. In 1892 he
relocated to Roswell, New Mexico, supervising the Roswell Land and
Water Company. In a chapter on "Ranching in Texas," James tells how
in 1904 he purchased from Ranger Capt. James. B. Gillett the Altura
Ranch in Brewster County (fourteen miles from Alpine, next to A. S.
Gage's ranch). He describes the transition from open-range to fenced
ranching and the attendant violence. His rousing and frequently
violent ventures conclude prosaically with chapters on his Masonic
activities and boating and hunting on the Texas Gulf Coast.

Among the expanded and new material in the 1928 volume are his
1858 buffalo hunt in Nebraska; apprehending counterfeiters in Paris,
Texas, around 1890; ranching on the Rio Grande in 1883-1884 at Myers
Canyon in the brush country thirty miles above the mouth of the Pecos
River; relocating to Murphyville (now Alpine) in 1894; diary of the
first boat trip to make the run from Galveston to Port Aransas and
return through the Intracoastal Canal (1913); involvement with the
New Mexico Military Institute; dispute of the Great American Desert
theory; "The Paramount Aim of the Klan"; "New Mexico's Future"; etc.
2 vols. ($1,500-3,000)
****
~Texas Jay


No study of the Knights of the Golden Circle is complete without one reading this book which was the first book I read about this secretive organization and the massive amounts of treasure they buried in the U.S.

"Rebel Gold" by Warren Getler and Bob Brewer, pubished in 2005 by Simon & Schuster Paperbacks. 

I ask readers to keep on-topic in this section "Books and Documents about the Knights of the Golden Circle" and do not post messages that are just criticisms (your opinion) of any of these books and documents.  Any messages that do not include a title to a book related to the KGC or to a specific document about the KGC will be deleted.
~Texas Jay

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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2009, 06:31:07 pm »
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James W. Jason's books do not mention the Knights of the Golden Circle or any of the Legendary Treasures in regards to the Knights of the Golden Circle.

Could you kindly site which page you are referencing too that might validate the entry of these books in this sub-forum?

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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2009, 07:19:57 pm »
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The Bulldozers and White Camelias, mentioned by Capt. Jason W. James in the previous quote were branches of the Knights of the Golden Circle.  I have already listed several sources that confirm this fact on this subforum.  I guess you haven't read them.  If you have any sources, not just your opinions, that contradict this fact please post them.
~Texas Jay

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« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 07:21:42 pm by Texas Jay »
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2009, 07:29:03 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Texas Jay
The Bulldozers and White Camelias, mentioned by Capt. Jason W. James in the previous quote were branches of the Knights of the Golden Circle.  I have already listed several sources that confirm this fact on this subforum.  I guess you haven't read them.  If you have any sources, not just your opinions, that contradict this fact please post them.
~Texas Jay


I cannot seem to find your reliable references to this effect. Please post a link that will validate The Bulldozers and White Camelias were involved with the Knights of the Golden Circle in Louisiana or Tennessee. Furthermore, please site which page in the book you have posted that would reference the Legendary Treasures or the Knights of the Golden Circle themselves

Added: The Knights of the White Camellia was organized in 1867 as an independent group. The were not affliated with the KKK or the KGC

The Knights of the White Camellia was a secret organization of white men formed in the lower Southern states in the Reconstruction period. Its members were pledged to support the supremacy of the white race, to oppose the amalgamation of the races, to resist the social and political encroachment of the so-called carpetbaggers, and to restore white control of the government. The order was organized in New
Orleans in May 1867 by Col. Alcibiade DeBlanc

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« Last Edit: December 23, 2009, 07:44:47 pm by Rational Observer »
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 08:28:35 pm »
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Here are a few:

"Jesse James and the Lost Cause" by Jesse Lee James (Howk), published by Pageant Press, New York, 1961, page 148.

"Rebel Gold" by Warren Getler and Bob Brewer, 2005, page 113.

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http://www.kipaddotta.com/culture/ku-klux-klan.html
 

***
"A San Antonio, Texas political scientist, Mario Marcel Salas, argues that some of first Klan groups were organized in Texas under the name of Knights of the Golden Circle and the Order of the Lone Star of the West, and existed before the 1866 date. In extrapolating information from John Salmon "Rip" Ford's notes, and an edited work of those notes by Stephen B. Oates, in "Rip Ford's Texas," Salas says one of the first Klan groups was organized in 1856. This group was active in San Antonio, Texas and was in part an offshoot of the "Know Nothing Party." The Knights of the Golden Circle aimed to establish slave empires in Mexico and Cuba. John "Rip" Ford was a member of this racist group. Later, Samuel Maverick of "Maverick horse fame," and during the Reconstruction period in San Antonio, would be one of the founders of the KKK in San Antonio.

At first the main objective of white supremacy organizations such as the Ku Klux Klan, the White Brotherhood, the Men of Justice, the Constitutional Union Guards and the Knights of the White Camelia was to stop Black People from voting. After white governments had been established in the South the Ku Klux Klan continued to undermine the power of blacks. Successful black businessmen were attacked and any attempt to form black protection groups such as trade unions was quickly dealt with. Lynch mobs and other acts of terrorism directed towards blacks, Jews and those who attempted to aid in the formation of black organizations became common and widespread."
***

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***

"3. _Reaction: The KuKlux Klan_

Even before the Civil War a secret organization, the Knights of the
Golden Circle, had been formed to advance Southern interests. After the
war there were various organizations--Men of Justice, Home Guards, Pale
Faces, White Brotherhood, White Boys, Council of Safety, etc., and, with
headquarters at New Orleans, the thoroughly organized Knights of the
White Camelia. All of these had for their general aim the restoration
of power to the white men of the South, which aim they endeavored to
accomplish by regulating the conduct of the Negroes and their leaders
in the Republican organization, the Union League, especially by playing
upon the fears and superstitions of the Negroes. In general, especially
in the Southeast, everything else was surpassed or superseded by the
KuKlux Klan, which originated in Tennessee in the fall of 1865 as an
association of young men for amusement, but which soon developed into a
union for the purpose of whipping, banishing, terrorizing, and murdering
Negroes and Northern white men who encouraged them in the exercise of
their political rights. No Republican, no member of the Union League,
and no G.A.R. man could become a member. The costume of the Klan
was especially designed to strike terror in the uneducated Negroes.
Loose-flowing sleeves, hoods in which were apertures for the eyes, nose,
and mouth trimmed with red material, horns made of cotton-stuff standing
out on the front and sides, high cardboard hats covered with white
cloth decorated with stars or pictures of animals, long tongues of red
flannel, were all used as occasion demanded. The KuKlux Klan finally
extended over the whole South and greatly increased its operations on
the cessation of martial law in 1870. As it worked generally at night,
with its members in disguise, it was difficult for a grand jury to get
evidence on which to frame a bill, and almost impossible to get a jury
that would return a verdict for the state. Repeated measures against
the order were of little effect until an act of 1870 extended the
jurisdiction of the United States courts to all KuKlux cases. Even then
for some time the organization continued active."



In order to support your belief that the Knights of the White Camelia were not part of the KGC, you need to be able to prove the KKK was not either.  Good luck with that.   

~Texas Jay

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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 08:54:43 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Texas Jay

Here are a few:

"Jesse James and the Lost Cause" by Jesse Lee James (Howk), published by Pageant Press, New York, 1961, page 148.

"Rebel Gold" by Warren Getler and Bob Brewer, 2005, page 113.

A San Antonio, Texas political scientist, Mario Marcel Salas



Dear Texas Jay,

You have posted references from a known inaccurate novel by Jesse Lee James, a known treasure hunting novel by Bob Brewer and a theory by a political scientist.

For the sake of an adult conversation...where are the reliable references supporting your accusations the Knights of the Golden Circle, the Ku Klux Klan and the Knights of the White Camellia were all operating with the same goals and beliefs. Furthermore, other than the original research provided...where are the peer-reviews and scholarly journals where these theories have been discussed and validated as being historically correct?

Quote:Posted by Texas Jay
The Bulldozers and White Camelias, mentioned by Capt. Jason W. James in the previous quote were branches of the Knights of the Golden Circle.  I have already listed several sources that confirm this fact on this subforum.  I guess you haven't read them.  If you have any sources, not just your opinions, that contradict this fact please post them.
~Texas Jay


You kind of left me hanging on this one.

I cannot seem to find your reliable references to this effect. Please post a link that will validate The Bulldozers and White Camelias were involved with the Knights of the Golden Circle in Louisiana or Tennessee. Furthermore, please site which page in the book you have posted that would reference the Legendary Treasures or the Knights of the Golden Circle themselves

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« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 09:35:26 pm »
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 Good subject Jay although I know very little about it. I do have Bob's book and will reread it so I can maybe add something.

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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2009, 04:27:33 pm »
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Oh, for goodness sake, Jay. Everyone has an opinion as do you. To call someone a liar with an agenda is a label that you could easily put on yourself. Personally, I ask for more proof than anything you have offered thus far. First off, when did the name KGC get coined? Why, that's a silly question. After the first FICTION book on the subject. The name wasn't even uttered until 50 years after the alleged gold was hidden yet you consider it a sacred and holy name here. Anyone who disagrees with you or calls for more proof before swallowing the legends wholecloth is called a liar with an agenda. That's just plain insulting.

You really ought to learn a bit of tolerance. Don't you realize that when the skeptics come along and question you, that it forces you to learn ever more about your subject? I believe in the Confederate gold caches because I have seen some that were found and the provenance behind them. What I don't see and have never seen yet is proof than any single cache was proven to be from the James Gang or this mythical KGC.

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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2009, 06:35:55 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Texas Jay

Welcome to this subforum, seldom.  "Rebel Gold" is probably the best current history of the KGC.  Brewer and Getler did a lot of research putting this book together and it shows in the excellent bibliography.  In addition to that, the book is full of photographs and eyewitness reports of KGC treasures that have been found.  Anyone who tries to convince people that this book is "fiction" is simply lying and has an agenda to pursue.  Another excellent book about the Knights of the Golden Circle and their post-war activities is "The Mysterious and Secret Order of the Knights of The Golden Circle" by Military Historian Dr. Roy William Roush, Ph.D., 2005.
~Texas Jay



Could you kindly provide us with a reliable reference, or source that might validate the novel written by Brewer and Getler is in fact historically correct. The novel has several fringe theories that appear only in that publication.

I would also request the same for the self-published novel by Roy Roush. Any sort of peer-review or article in a scholarly journal would do nicely. Not that I do not value your opinion and personal interpretation of this material, but would rather read it from those who are more scholarly qualified


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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2009, 06:43:24 pm »
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Quote:Posted by seldom
Good subject Jay although I know very little about it. I do have Bob's book and will reread it so I can maybe add something.


Welcome to this subforum, seldom.  "Rebel Gold" is probably the best current history of the KGC.  Brewer and Getler did a lot of research putting this book together and it shows in the excellent bibliography.  In addition to that, the book is full of photographs and eyewitness reports of KGC treasures that have been found.  Anyone who tries to convince people that this book is "fiction" is simply lying and has an agenda to pursue.  Another excellent book about the Knights of the Golden Circle and their post-war activities is "The Mysterious and Secret Order of the Knights of The Golden Circle" by Military Historian Dr. Roy William Roush, Ph.D., 2005.
~Texas Jay

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***

LOUISIANA DEMOCRAT [ALEXANDRIA, LA], March 21, 1860, p. 4, c. 2
Here is something new under the sun, taken from the N. O. Courier,
of a recent date.
Secret organization seem to be the order of the times:

The K. G. C.

We observe a call for the K. G. C.'s to meet at the hall over the
Carrollton R. R. Depot, on this evening, at 7 oclock. In conjunction with this
call we observe that many of the leading members of this organization are now in
our city. Gen. Bickley, the Commander-in-Chief, Col. Temple and Surgeon Semple,
are at the St. Louis Hotel; Gen. Greer, who is well-known as one of our bravest
Volunteer Colonels from Mississippi during the recent war, and who now commands
a division of the K. G. C., together with Major Richardson, one of his
staff-officers, and Col. H. C. Young, of Memphis, who commands the First
Tennessee Regiment are at the City Hotel; while others, as Captain Scott and
Lieutenant Breese, are at the Merchants'; Captain Gay, the wagon-master, is at
the "Texas Home;" and still many others of note and character are at the St.
Charles, or quartered with private friends in the city. Besides, there are
hundreds of our own citizens in hourly contact with these gentlemen, so that one
cannot but inquire, "What's in the wind?"
As our readers must feel some interest in whatever is likely to
create excitement we feel ourselves justified in making the following statement
respecting this powerful organization, from sources of information, which, from
the character of the parties from whom we have derived it, we deem worthy of
respectful consideration. The K. G. C., or "Knights of the Golden Circle," was
organized in 1854, more to cultivate the martial spirit of our people, than
anything else; since then it has steadily grown, until now it numbers over
30,000 members, who are scattered over the Southern States, and holding within
its charmed circle many of our most influential men and best soldiers. No
organization of the kind has in this country ever combined so much talent with
such immense financial resources, and under the present aspect of political
affairs, we do not deem it too much to say that the whole nation may soon become
deeply interested in the ultimate labors of the K. G. C.
It is generally understood that the K. G. C. are preparing to
operate in the broad field which civil war has opened in Mexico to American
enterprise and industry, and the first thought of the great public is that it is
to be a grand "filibuster" operation, destined to meet the same reverses which
have befallen all similar expeditions. But, for our part, if our information in
the main be correct, the gentlemen who stand at the head of the movement are of
an entirely different intellectual calibre from those whom we have heretofore
seen directing these military operations. If we were allowed to guess, we
should say that these gentlemen are about embarking in a scheme not unlike that
in which Lafayette, Kosciusco, DeKalb, and their compatriots so generously
engaged in when we were striving to shake off the shackles of British despotism;
and we are assured that it is their steady determination to place the "Liberal"
or Juarez party in the full and peaceful occupation of the City of Mexico, and
thus prove to the world that Americans will never refuse to other struggling
peoples the aid so opportunely rendered us by the French in 1777. This noble
work is one that we have frequently advocated, and the necessity of which is
truly felt by the masses in this country, as well as of the Republic of Mexico.
We say God speed to the K. G. C.! Should they fail, they will have fallen in a
noble cause.

***

~Texas Jay



Bob Brewer's article from the L.A. Times can be found on this SCV webpage:

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~Texas Jay

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