Books and Documents about the Knights of the Golden Circle

Jay, that letter does not mention the Colt's original owner. This is precisely what I mean about the lack of evidence. Keep looking.

All this proves is that a descendant of Bill Anderson inherited a gun that is most likely his. Can't prove it, but there's really no need to disprove it. Either way, you still can't tie it to a treasure. Perhaps you should do a bit of research on what provenance is. Shipwreck hunters can spend decades trying to prove a shard of pottery came from a specific ship. You guys have the Internet and think you can establish proof because you found a link or an e-mail that implies something you'd like to believe. If you use Google right now, you'll find this very post which doesn't agree that what you have is proof. It might be, if you followed it up.

But then there's the problem of linking a gun's existence and ownership to a treasure. Not many connections there, mate. Sorry.

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GoldHunter, I don't need your advice on provenance or anything else for that matter.  This Colt revolver's origin and current owner and her relationship to the original owner are all documented and I have the documentation.  As far as the original owner, he is stated in the letter.  I submitted what you said you wanted but, like every other piece of evidence submitted, you just go off on another tangent.  Your motives are very clear to me if not to everyone else reading this.  I've dealt with your kind for 5 years now and I long ago quit trying to convince the unconvinceable.  It makes no difference to me whether you believe anything I say, pretend not to believe anything I say or document, or agree with anything I say and document.  You may be aware of a fellow by the name of Ron West aka "Alec" on some treasure websites.  He is exactly like you but as recently as 2003, he was convinced that what KGC hunters today say is correct.  Now, he says he's seen the light but doesn't share that light with anyone else.  Suspicious motives?  I know so.  Here is the documentation to this new series of events:

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I urge you all to read this thread where one of the longtime members of
treasurenet just exposed Ron West by using his own words against him. Ron West,
who writes on okietreasurehunter's blogs and websites, is now probably the
loudest critic of the KGC and their massive treasure caches. What goes around
comes around.
Happy Holidays!
~Jay~

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boattow
Posts: 142
USA
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Re: Knights of the Golden Circle after the Civil War
Reply To This Topic #158 Posted Yesterday at 08:15:44 PM Quote
Quote from: alec on Yesterday at 02:28:47 PM
I'm sure that there were people around in the early 1900's that had been members
of the KGC but for them to have been moving caches and re-marking the locations
with new carvings and markers there would have had to have been caches to
move/re-mark.


That's interesting...these are your words, not mine... I actually don't believe
they moved caches or changed the carvings but you do. Yammie only knows what he
reads on the internet from "trustworthy" sources.

Alec wrote:
They also came back and moved some caches to other spots within the originall
areas the cahce was located in, changing the clues/carvings along the way. When
this was done they also changed the type of code at the site so that someone
following the original clues would not/could not read the second code, therefore
making it extremely difficult to locate the cache.

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alec
Posts: 108




Re: Knights of the Golden Circle after the Civil War
Reply To This Topic #159 Posted Today at 06:40:51 AM Quote

You got me there boattow, I don't remember writing that but at one time I did
beleive that. Too bad you didn't post the date that I wrote that and it would be
obvious that was back when I did believe the myths and before I did any of my
own research. I have said repeatedly since then that I have come to my senses.

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Texas Jay
Posts: 272
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Re: Knights of the Golden Circle after the Civil War
Reply To This Topic #162 Posted Today at 12:48:40 PM Quote Modify Remove

Thanks Boattow for quoting Ron's post from 2003. Here is the entire message:

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[2003 post by Ron West]

Re: KGC on state lines
February 17, 2003 at 14:41:45
In Reply to: Re: KGC IN CALIFORNIA
posted by Richard on February 17, 2003 at 13:21:16



"Richard,

You have part of the equation correct when you say that the KGC like to put down
caches on state lines. You just haven't gone far enough. The KGC used several
different "lines" when placing caches in the ground and sometimes the only thing
you had was one or two clues that indicate what line and where to begin. The
"line" caches were originally designed to be worked using a transparent overlay
onto a regular county/topographical map of the time. The small number of clues
were just there to tell you that you are in the right spot and to indicate where
the overlay should be used.

The KGC operated into the 1900s (approximately 1916), continually putting caches
in the ground until that time. They also came back and moved some caches to
other spots within the originall areas the cahce was located in, changing the
clues/carvings along the way. When this was done they also changed the type of
code at the site so that someone following the original clues would not/could
not read the second code, therefore making it extremely difficult to locate the
cache.

They were very tricky in how they placed their caches, using several hidden
reverses along the way, decoys and a mixture of code. They knew the geology and
geography of the area where the cache was placed and in some instances used
engineers to place the caches. This was not a group of lazy men nor were they
stupid.

Good luck in your hunting! "



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Re: I like creative ingenuity with caches Richard - 19:07:14 2/17/2003 (0)

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I think this expose is hilarious considering that "Alec" has been so vehement in
his opposition to everything that he stated in this post just a few years ago!
Now the big question is, well, I suppose you all can figure that out.
~Texas Jay
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I don't get it.


Are the large amounts of copy/paste from another forum supposed to validate the ownership of the Colt revolver?

Or, is it supposed to validate the speculation posted on this forum?

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		Quote:			Posted by Texas Jay
	In case you haven't noticed, RO, I don't intend to document anything for those who offer no documentation for any of your opinions.  Why don't you just move on to another subforum and request provenance and documentation for every member who finds a gold ring and tells about it on here?  I know what your game is and it is exactly like that of Ron West of my previous message.  Your sole intent is to cause trouble on this subforum and to discourage any treasure hunters from even studying the KGC while you post not a single authority from which you supposedly get your high-and-mighty evidence from.  Christian obviously can't see it and maybe he never will but, I for one, have better ways to spend my time than to argue with people with dishonest motives so, from this point forward, I will not reply to you (RO), GoldHunter1950, or anyone else who has nothing positive to contribute.  I will only contribute what I feel will help other treasure hunters on this forum.  I will not "moderate" this subforum because the duties of Moderator have been denied me because of your strategic insults and negative comments.  So you can rant and rave all you want but if you attack me personally, you'd better be able to back your mouths up physically because you will have to sooner or later.  ~Texas Jay

Good grief. Nobody is attacking you, Jay. The material you bring into the discussion does not validate your claims. In some instances, the material does not even apply to the topic!

If you want to change history, or promote a fringe theory to other interested individuals...you need to bring more into the discussion than what you previously have.

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		Quote:			Posted by Texas Jay
	I think this expose is hilarious considering that "Alec" has been so vehement in his opposition to everything that he stated in this post just a few years ago! Now the big question is, well, I suppose you all can figure that out. ~Texas Jay

Being 'Alec' isn't a member here, and cannot defend himself....I have taken the liberty of copy/pasting HIS reply to you from that same forum:

What caused me to see the light is that there are no facts concerning the KGC mega depositories. Anywhere! Lots of info about the KGC itself but absolutely nothing about treasures, except of course the information from Orvus Howk which is continually rehashed by all of the supposed KGC experts. Over and Over and over.........

You can't document what's not there. The information you use as "documented proof" all comes from the same original source which is Howk. Howk was a liar and conman. I have said this several times before also, there is no information that even alludes to the KGC having any large amounts of money or hiding any large treasures except for the info from Howk. If you study the KGC you will find very quickly that they weren't the secrect organization everyone likes to say they were and they did not have the organizational skills or the logistical support to pull off even 1/4 of what they are supposed to have done. They didn't even have the kind of money it would take to spend making these depositories much less putting any money in them.

None of this KGC depository nonsense even existed until Dalton and Howk showed up. Neither man was who or what they said they were. If these things really existed don't you think there would have been something prior to 1950 coming out about the treasures or talking about the group or the areas they were hiring help or bringing in workers, etc.? It's not like the KGC was some big secret back then. Everybody knew they existed and what they were trying to do and they couldn't even collect enough money to continue as a group much less put anything in the ground like the alleged tons of gold and silver that is talked about. All of the other Civil War information was available and coming out as it was happening in the 1800's.

All of the rumors about the South's money and where it went and who made have gotten it all came out in the 1800's. Why would the KGC be immune from any of this? They weren't a secret group, they had no money, they couldn't handle the task of making these depositories even if they could afford to do so because they didn't have the man power or money to do so.

To borrow from yammy, extrordinary claims require extra ordinary proof. None of which you or anybody else has because it doesn't exist, pure and simple.

You and boattow seem to spend more time trying to bait people into an argument than you do searching for the truth.

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