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Offline Rational Observer
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« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2010, 07:01:54 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Texas Jay
Clearly, it is you GD who needs to read the Hoover/Davidson letter again.  It proves that J. Edgar Hoover knew that the man called "J. Frank Dalton" was Jesse Woodson James.
I don't know what you are talking about when you mention Blaine.  I was referring to YOUR occupation as a magician.  If you continue to deny the truth, I will gladly post your youtube exhibition of your lack of skills, in that department, for members here to see.  Then all will see whose research is "faulty".
~Texas Jay


Oh good grief. Are you that much of a nimrod that you call something added AFTER the form letter left the FBI proof? Get over yourself already  Idiot

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Offline Texas JayTopic starter
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« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2010, 07:23:54 pm »
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Here's another official document that confirms that "J. Frank Dalton" was Jesse Woodson James.

***
From: "The Truth About Jesse James" by Rudy Turilli, Copyright 1967.  I transcribed the affidavit for members of our Yahoo group from my copy of the book.

***


"AFFIDAVIT OF MARTILLUS EDWIN BALDWIN
STATE OF ILLINOIS )
COUNTY OF WHITSIDE ) )SS

My name is Martillus Edwin Baldwin. My father was M.E. Till Baldwin who was
born in 1842 and lived until January 12, 1912 when he died at the age of
seventy. His first wife was Rachael Gammond who he has told me was a cousin to
Frank and Jesse James. Father has also told me that he went to grade school
with both Frank and Jesse James and knew them well.

My father was a Baptist minister for almost forty years and very dedicated to
living and preaching the Word of God. When I was eight years old I accompanied
father on a preaching tour down through Texas. I can recall that on that trip
we stayed south of Denton, Texas, as guests of a man my father called by the
name of 'Jesse'. Years later and about three years before my father died, he
asked me if I remembered the man we had visited on that trip. He then told me
that the man was Jesse James. I did remember the man quite well and I recall
that the man looked very much like the picture of Jesse James which my father
had. I will remember that all of my life. I had the picture until it was lost
when my house in Ekter burned. Father was very serious, and I will always
remember that occasion when he revealed to me the secret that the man we had
visited was Jesse James because I knew that Jesse was supposed to have been
killed. Father had always told me that his first wife was a cousin to Frank and
Jesse James and that he had gone to school with the boys. He recalled that they
had tried to get him to go bushwhacking with them during the war, but that he
had had his parents sign him into General Lee's Army as an excuse to get out of
going with them. Father said that at times he had heard that the James boys
were coming after him and he knew what they meant by it.

My father was in the army for only a little more than a year, but he didn't
return home after the war and was in St. Joseph, Missouri when Jesse James was
supposedly shot and killed by Bob Ford. Father told me that he was there and
actually sat up with the corpse that was supposed to be Jesse. But Father says
that it positively was not Jesse James. The body did not have the scars that
Father knew Jesse to have. Also, Father says that he knew Jesse had two teeth
shot out, but that the corpse had a full set of teeth; and not as a result of
dental work either. Father recognized Jesse James by his forehead, too, and he
told me that the man they buried was definitely not him. In fact, according to
Father, Jesse sang at his own funeral, and Father says he knew Jesse well and
would recognize him anywhere.

I can also recall my father telling me that after the death of his first wife he
was making a trip South and happened to meet Frank James. Frank then told my
father that he too was going South for a few days to 'visit with some friends'.
Father says he asked Frank about Jesse being killed and Frank replied, 'You know
Baldwin, if Bob Ford had shot Jesse James he wouldn't have lived 'till sundown.'
Frank told my father how to get to Jesse's ranch south of Denton, Texas.

These things were told to me by my father when I was about twenty years old, but
father did not want to reveal this secret to anyone else as he was a minister of
the gospel. He told me not to tell the secret until after his death, and I kept
faith with him and told no one about Jesse James being still alive.

When I was twenty-three years old I met Frank James and Cole Younger at a picnic
in Whitewright, Texas. My brother-in-law was with me and I shook hands with
Frank and asked him if he had remembered Baldwin. Frank James' immediate reply
was, 'Yes, you are the son of Till Baldwin; I went to school with your father.'
He said that he was glad to see me, but I could not spend much time talking with
him as there was a large crowd and everyone was shoving and pushing to get to
shake hands with those two gentlemen.

Years later when I was living in Bonham, Texas I met an old gentleman called J.
Frank Dalton who many people said was Jesse James. Upon meeting the man I could
immediately see the resemblance to the picture of Jesse which my father had
given me and to the man my father called 'Jesse' at the ranch south of Denton,
Texas. This J. Frank Dalton told me that he knew my father, Till Baldwin; had
gone to school with him and that my father's first wife was related to him.
This verified what I had always been told, I knew then that J. Frank Dalton was,
in truth, Jesse James.

In March, 1965 I visited the Jesse James Museum and for the first time met Mr.
Rudy Turilli. I recognized the photographs of J. Frank Dalton as being the old
gentleman of the same name that I had talked with years earlier in Texas. I
told Mr. Turilli all that my father had told me and now relate the same facts in
this Affidavit which I am giving of my own free will and without any
compensation or promise of any whatsoever.

(Signed)
MARTILLUS EDWIN BALDWIN

On this 18 day of October, 1965 there appeared before me, the undersigned Notary
Public, Martillus Edwin Baldwin, proven to me to be the same, and after being
first duly sworn upon his oath executed the above statement and states to me
before God as his Witness that the contents thereof are true to his best
knowledge and belief.

Martin E. Lockhart
Notary Public Within and for the County of WHITSIDE, State of Illinois.
My Commission expires 9-2-69"

***





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« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2010, 07:45:40 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Texas Jay

"The Truth About Jesse James" by Rudy Turilli, Copyright 1967.  I transcribed the affidavit for members of our Yahoo group from my copy of the book.



Rudy Turilli was proved wrong...in a court of law....about his knowledge of Jesse James. Why....shoot fire, some folks even claim Truilli was a fraud and con-man.

Real good references ya go there   LOL

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« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2010, 07:51:47 pm »
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The man who swore and signed the affidavit was named Baldwin, not Turilli.  "Some folks even claim" you, RO, are "a fraud and a con-man" too so why should we even take anything you say seriously?   Smiley
~Texas Jay

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« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2010, 07:57:51 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Texas Jay
The man who swore and signed the affidavit was named Baldwin, not Turilli.  "Some folks even claim" you, RO, are "a fraud and a con-man" too so why should we even take anything you say seriously?   Smiley
~Texas Jay


For the simple fact I am not trying to prove a conspiracy theory with a worthless notarized piece of Whoops...don't step in that!

Anybody can have anything notarized...that does not make it an official document   LOL

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« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2010, 08:30:49 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Texas Jay
Clearly, it is you GD who needs to read the Hoover/Davidson letter again.  It proves that J. Edgar Hoover knew that the man called "J. Frank Dalton" was Jesse Woodson James.
I don't know what you are talking about when you mention Blaine.  I was referring to YOUR occupation as a magician.  If you continue to deny the truth, I will gladly post your youtube exhibition of your lack of skills, in that department, for members here to see.  Then all will see whose research is "faulty".
~Texas Jay


That's funny because they were seen together. Hoover wasn't infallible but your belief in him is touching. There's nothing there in Hoover's letter about Dalton, unfortunately for you. Just the words added later by another of your cronies.

Your mouth must be just full of scars from all of those fish hooks you bite into. Somebody types something in Wiki and you swear it's Gospel truth. Your lack of even basic research skills is an embarrassment to this subject which you love so fondly.

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« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 08:34:58 pm by GoldDigger1950 »
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« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2010, 08:34:00 pm »
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golddigger1950 and texas jay - WHY DON'T YOU TWO EXCHANGE YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL ADDRESSES AND TAKE THIS CRAP OFF THIS SITE?Huh?Huh??

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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2010, 08:42:12 pm »
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Balto Bob, since Christian created this subforum, Knights of the Golden Circle, at MY suggestion, I have no intention of leaving it just because of a couple of anonymous naysayers who never contribute anything useful to the discussions here. 
~Texas Jay

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« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2010, 12:19:34 am »
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Well whether it's true or not, this KGC stuff is intriguing.  It adds another element of suspense to the whole treasure hunting hobby.  I find myself walking around trees and staring at rock embankments looking for clues.  Even though I haven't found any yet, I dread the day when I'm out 4 miles into the forest and run across a clue that I'll never be able to find again because I haven't bought a cheap handheld GPS to pinpoint my location for later fun.

KGC, Masons, your Grandmother... it doesn't really matter.  Stuff is out there and clues lead to it.  This is fun stuff.

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« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2010, 01:58:30 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Balto Bob
golddigger1950 and texas jay - WHY DON'T YOU TWO EXCHANGE YOUR PERSONAL EMAIL ADDRESSES AND TAKE THIS CRAP OFF THIS SITE?Huh?Huh??


Now, now. Just remember that this is a forum, not a book full of information. We discuss things here. In the discussion, someone will learn something. There's one huge thing missing in all this KGC stuff here on this forum and some of us are laughing about it. Others are moaning. Some are crying. What's missing is provenance. There is a huge amount of typed and transcribed data but so far nobody seems able to produce the source documents. Any idea why that is? Because there are none. There have been only thousands of plagiarized words cut and pasted from other sites and not one actual document.

Then along comes Jay with this letter from Hoover which doesn't support his theory at all. Yet, in a single unverified, typed paragraph, he places his entire bet. The so called evidence he uses is hearsay. It cannot now or ever be verified because you can never again speak to Hoover. Too bad because that gives Jay no reason to look further.

Why I am so opposed to these KGC guys is that their lack of research skills seems to be contagious. Not one of them is even interested in finding a source document. They all rely on three generations of people telling tales rather than a single scrap of paper. I am very concerned that others here may read this stuff and believe it is true without a single scrap of evidence. There's no real harm in it at the moment but compare it to the Yam treasure guys. Some of them have died digging holes in the ground over a nonexistent treasure. Soon enough, one of these KGC guys will come to grief. It's only a matter of time.

So far, the hysteria of finding KGC gold has attracted no shortage of people to this very forum all looking for gold that has not even been proven to exist. The hysteria even spawned a TV documentary on finding a cache which was somehow magically attributed to Jesse James. Nothing in the cache can be tied to any particular human being on this planet but the documentary producers have everyone believing it belonged to Jesse James and therefore is a KGC treasure.

I urge the careful reader here to learn proper research techniques. There are some really knowledgeable people here like Cornelius, Christian, the late Goldigger and others who know how to research a story and also know when to acknowledge that they have reached a dead end. These guys in the KGC group look at a dead end as proof that something is being covered up! It's just shoddy work and I sure hope you do your own research rather than take this stuff to your piggy bank. If they were so sure they have the goods in their sights, why are they still here discussing it? Who are they trying to convince and why? If they're not sure, they should admit it and seek help. If they are sure, why are they beating on those of us who question their work instead of digging up their gold?

The KGC guys have simply not answered any of those basic questions which YOU should be asking of them.
Quote:Posted by bigwater
Well whether it's true or not, this KGC stuff is intriguing.  It adds another element of suspense to the whole treasure hunting hobby.  I find myself walking around trees and staring at rock embankments looking for clues.  Even though I haven't found any yet, I dread the day when I'm out 4 miles into the forest and run across a clue that I'll never be able to find again because I haven't bought a cheap handheld GPS to pinpoint my location for later fun.

KGC, Masons, your Grandmother... it doesn't really matter.  Stuff is out there and clues lead to it.  This is fun stuff.


This is a very logical approach to the issue. Yes, clues do come from all types of sources. Just like any clue, you have to verify its worth.

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