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Offline justint538
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« Reply #70 on: January 07, 2010, 11:33:40 pm »
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Those can all be possibilities. I definitely agrre with the Confederate treasure. But I dont know if JJ spent all if it. Obviously he spent some of it but I dont know if it was a majority of it. I'm not afraid to be wrong, I just find evidence that leads to a possibility and i try to pursue it to find the truth behind it. And I'm partially with you on the KGC part. I mean there could have been maybe a small group but I believe they were probably just a group of Confederates that came together.

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #71 on: January 07, 2010, 11:47:18 pm »
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Quote:Posted by justint538
Those can all be possibilities. I definitely agrre with the Confederate treasure. But I dont know if JJ spent all if it. Obviously he spent some of it but I dont know if it was a majority of it. I'm not afraid to be wrong, I just find evidence that leads to a possibility and i try to pursue it to find the truth behind it. And I'm partially with you on the KGC part. I mean there could have been maybe a small group but I believe they were probably just a group of Confederates that came together.


The first legitimate quote using the term Knights of the Golden Circle happened in a serialized piece of fiction in a 1930s newspaper. If I am proven wrong on that, I swear to you I will admit it but that piece that someone published here from the CIA and later from some newspaper excerpt are both flawed since no original documentation can be found to support either article.

Jesse James was given credit for robberies that were hundreds of miles apart on the same day. I really don't know if even law enforcement people of his time knew how much he really got away with. It's all guesswork.

Evidence that leads to a possibility. That's an interesting way to say you can now add guesswork. I often find conflicting evidence to treasure but at some point you have to simply take a guess and admit it is a guess rather than evidence. I'm researching a local guy from the 1930s who was known to give away gold Sovereigns here in Perth to random visitors who came to visit him at a local asylum. Nobody ever saw where they came from but he would give them to nurses, staff and just people who paid him a kindness by sitting with him or offering him a smoke. When he died, his room was searched for the source of the gold coins. Nothing was ever found. I'm trying to go back a bit further and see where he got them but there's a lack of real hard evidence because he was basically a nobody until he died. The asylum grounds are now a school and some open bushland. There are lots of acres to search. Wish me luck.

Justin, use your noodle. Question everything you read. Einstein said it best when he said, "Question authority." He didn't mean authority like those in charge. He meant to always question those who author things. Some of it comes from their imagination instead of facts.

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Offline justint538
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« Reply #72 on: January 08, 2010, 12:02:26 am »
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Yea thats true. I was looking at these newspaper articles before from the 1800s and they were about the Civil War but then in one it all of a sudden had a "K. G. C." just like that and this is what it said

"K. G. C.*-The Moline Independent is informed that there are several lodges of this piratic order organized in Rock Island county. It has been suspected that we had at least one organization of the kind in this county; but though such a thing is not improbable, it is doubtful if any is now in existence here: the loyalty of our people is too intense to permit any very persistent effort in that direction."

This was found in the Daily Gazette in Davenport, Iowa but it never legitacizes the KGC, in fact it more discredits it. This was published on August 11th, 1862.

But thats a pretty interesting story. That would be interesting to figure out. Yea I know what Einstein meant with that. He was also trying to explain not to just conform to beliefs, you should question it and figure it for yourself.



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Offline cccalco
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« Reply #73 on: January 08, 2010, 07:05:32 am »
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Quote:Posted by GoldDigger1950
The first legitimate quote using the term Knights of the Golden Circle happened in a serialized piece of fiction in a 1930s newspaper. If I am proven wrong on that, I swear to you I will admit it but that piece that someone published here from the CIA and later from some newspaper excerpt are both flawed since no original documentation can be found to support either article.

The article that I submitted:

Louisiana Democrat [Alexandria, LA]
July 13, 1859-April 25, 1860
November 2, 1864, November 16, 1864

Came from

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It was transcribed by:
Vicki Betts
Professional Librarian                         
Cataloging and Reference
The University of Texas at Tyler         
Robert R. Muntz Library                                             Office:  LIB 209
University of Texas at Tyler                                        Office phone:  1-903-566-7344
3900 University Blvd.                                               Fax:  1-903-566-2513
Tyler, TX 75799                                                     Email: vbetts@mail.uttyl.edu

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Who says; "My research interests fall into two main categories:  mid-19th century U.S. history, particularly Southern women during the Civil War; and the history of Smith County, Texas, also focusing on the Civil War, particularly the Camp Ford POW facility near Tyler."


It can be found by doing a word search of:

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http://www.uttyler.edu/vbetts/newspaper_titles.htm


Now I do not know if this Librarian transcribed the article I read from the original paper or a mirophiche.  Usually in research either would be sufficient.  If this were a trial in which evidence would be submitted and testimony given then the word of an expert witness, the librarian would be enough as she could be cross examined.  If she had submitted article to this forum instead of me then we would not be this discussing further unless we were just argumentative.


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Offline salvor6
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« Reply #74 on: January 08, 2010, 11:30:56 am »
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Well GD1950 what have you to say to that rock solid evidence?

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #75 on: January 08, 2010, 02:57:41 pm »
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Quote:Posted by salvor6
Well GD1950 what have you to say to that rock solid evidence?


Where is the newspaper? All I see is a transcription and they can be fraught with errors. Do you really see rock solid evidence? Is that enough for you to rent a backhoe? Not me.

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« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2010, 04:22:05 pm »
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Unless this person was willing to destroy their professional integrity I would say the paragraph I saw containing references to the KGC is a valid clue that they did exist prior to 1930. Transcription errors are usually smaller than a whole paragraph, that would constitute fabrication of data. Possible but why would anyone sign off on it professionally?

While no I wouldn't rent a backhoe on it, it would make me interested in looking closer if I were looking for those alleged caches. Personally I don't have any real interest other than curiousity. It's simply a clue, and clues are all we have. If there was a document with locations and manifests well it would already be long gone anyway.

Neither am I alluding to JJ being a part of this group, or that they had any caches of wealth. Simply that perhaps they did exist as a group is what I see in this evidence.

Obviously at this point one has to verify the transcriber and if possible view the original document to substantiate. Newspaper articles were always subject to being propaganda vehicals. Interesting though imho.

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2010, 04:27:24 pm »
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Sorry, Idaho Jones. When it comes to treasure hunting, either you find the primary documents or you accept a MAYBE from a transcription. It can make the difference between a recovery and an empty hole. It's the nature of the beast. A transcription is very, very close to evidence but it still needs to be verified before it really is evidence. These kinds of things are sometimes generated from incorrect information. In the case of mentioning the KGC, she may have taken liberties when transcribing and failed to document them. One never knows. Did she submit her work as a university student thesis? Can't tell from the source.

I'd call you very wise for not reserving the backhoe at the moment. This is a perennial problem with these conspiracy theorists. They all glom on to the first thing that seems to support their wacky theory and never take a moment to verify the words they quote. Do they really think that just because and EDU site allowed it to be posted that it must be factual? Those personal pages have no academic standing at all. They are often left there when other researchers question their veracity. Who knows if the writing there has been verified or been subjected to peer review? There is a basic need to stop relying on the transcription of primary documents and seek those documents out. You (meaning anyone reading this) will face an empty hole if you don't.

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2010, 04:31:59 pm by GoldDigger1950 »
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« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2010, 04:40:14 pm »
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thats pretty much what I said.

I actually have a backhoe so no worries.

Clues are clues, some useful some not so much.

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2010, 04:44:51 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Idaho Jones
thats pretty much what I said.

I actually have a backhoe so no worries.

Clues are clues, some useful some not so much.


I want one of those little mini-diggers just to toy with it. It must go back to my childhood when I had a Michigan Shovel. Remember those?

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