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Offline Homefire
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« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2012, 01:53:04 pm »
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Judge and Jury?   He Broke the Law?

He stated that he was in a section of the river not Dredging banded.   They got him for Polluting the river.   Dredging Does NOT pollute the River. At Most it moves and cleans the Gravels on the bottom of the River making better Spawning Grounds for the Fish.

Fish Love Dredging.   They Come right up to the hose never being suck up and eat.

They benefit from the new food being opened up.

They Benefit from the clean grounds being made.

Like the  River in High Flow it's being washed out.

The fish don't have a problem.   It's just the People that do.



 Cool

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« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 04:20:12 pm by homefire »
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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2012, 01:55:32 pm »
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Homefire, I too have a problem with people who break the law. You are fast becoming a proponent of lawlessness in your words here. Right about now your paranoia gland should be screaming in your ear that "the man" just might be reading this.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

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« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2012, 04:26:42 pm »
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 Afraid of the Constitution of the United States?

Some day it's going to come back and bite the fools who think they can over write it in the buns. Cool

My Father and I fought to defend it.

The Ya Hoo we currently have in office Offends it.

I fear it NOT! Cool

If I should go silent and my E-Mial no longer works I made my Point.   LOL

I , My Son's in the military and many others know the difference from Right and Wrong.

There are many things being done Wrong in the USA today.

Courts are not imuned to corruption.

 Amen   Wise  

Any one that says the man Broke the law before his court date  is not allowing the Constitution to Work.

Sad, Sad!

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« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 04:50:00 pm by homefire »
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Offline cowboy444 aka Randy WatersTopic starter
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« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2012, 05:50:08 pm »
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Golddigger, That's quite a mouthfull out of you. I'm trying to protect your rights as well as mine. Do you agree that you are polluting every time you use a dredge? I think not. That is what the two citations are all about. The forest service couldn't stop me so they brought in the Oregon State Police to do the job. I'll continue to fight this to the end. I'm not going to bow down and pay the fine, which by the way is a maximum of 1 year in jail and a $25,000.00 for each citation.

cowboy444

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If you're unwilling to fight for your freedom, you don't deserve it.

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« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2012, 06:36:14 pm »
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First off Randy GD lives down under in Australia so he'll have to fight for his own rights.  Now to the dredging, suction dredging in and of it's self does NOT pollute rivers it simply picks up the silts and gravels, drops the gravel at the back of the dredge and the silts flow down river dissipating after about 100 yards.  I am sure Randy was not pouring sewage or toxic contaminants in the river that would be insane and I don't think he's lost his rudder, yet.

As he was working in a non-restricted section of the river and I assume he had the necessary permits then I would classify this as harassment and misuse of law enforcement personnel by the forest service.  The officer or officers who wrote the citations should be counciled by the judge on being used as a tool for harassment by the FS and the FS should get ripped for stepping outside of their bounds and using a state law enforcement agency in an inappropriate way.

All of this of course is assuming that the judge has brains between his ears and a set of stones in his shorts.

Gramps

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2012, 07:03:36 pm »
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Quote:Posted by cowboy444 aka Randy Waters
Golddigger, That's quite a mouthfull out of you. I'm trying to protect your rights as well as mine. Do you agree that you are polluting every time you use a dredge? I think not. That is what the two citations are all about. The forest service couldn't stop me so they brought in the Oregon State Police to do the job. I'll continue to fight this to the end. I'm not going to bow down and pay the fine, which by the way is a maximum of 1 year in jail and a $25,000.00 for each citation.

Knock it off, son. You got caught breaking the law. The law, right or wrong, is the law.

Posted on: May 23, 2012, 02:55:38 AM
Quote:Posted by homefire
Afraid of the Constitution of the United States?

I spent 22 years on active duty, retired now. Still stand by my oath to defend it, not to take sides with people who break laws.

Posted on: May 23, 2012, 02:57:15 AM
Quote:Posted by Gramps43
First off Randy GD lives down under in Australia so he'll have to fight for his own rights.

I live in Connecticut. I have been a life member of the GPAA since 1989 and oppose the laws that restrict dredging. I have two dry claims. One in California and one in Arizona. Both are working claims.

You make a lot of assumptions, Gramps43. He couldn't have had a permit with him if he was cited, which he was.

Posted on: May 23, 2012, 03:00:11 AM
All of you guys screaming about this need to stop and think about the outcome of this. Nothing done there is going to change any laws. The fine will either be paid or not. The law will either be fully enforced or not. Any way you look at it, until the legislators take this up for action, it will remain law. End of story.

All you screaming fist pounders, including Randy, are doing is giving law abiding prospectors a black eye. This is not good for the hobby or profession. You don't change laws in America by force or stupidity. You change them by legislative action. Now grab your pens like good little law abiding citizens and start writing to your representatives. Like I do when I don't like a law.

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« Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 07:07:28 pm by GoldDigger1950 »
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« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2012, 07:28:17 pm »
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My mistake last I was aware you were in Australia but no matter you are incorrect in your assertion that Randy broke the law.  He was working legally and because the Socialist government wants to deprive the citizenry of it's rights it comes out with these bogus charges.  It is time that someone stands up for those rights and not bend knee or back to their totalitarian crap.

Gramps

Posted on: May 22, 2012, 06:12:32 PM
How incorrect can one person be?  First off he wasn't cited for dredging without a permit, he was cited for polluting the river which is a judgement call and a bad one at that.  Secondly the Forest Service weeny couldn't cite him for anything so he called in the State Police to cite him for polluting which anyone with any knowlege of dredging knows is bogus.  That in it's self is a misuse of civil law enforce resourses if not proof of harassment by FS personnel.  And thirdly sir I would remind you of of a very profound statement for a renowned member of the German clergy which I include below.

Gramps

Martin Niemöller (1892-1984) was an ardent nationalist and prominent Protestant pastor who emerged as an outspoken public foe of Adolf Hitler and spent the last 7 years of Nazi rule in concentration camps.
Niemöller is perhaps best remembered for the quotation:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out --
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me -- and there was no one left to speak for me.
                                                                                  Martin Niemöller
 

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2012, 07:38:48 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Gramps43
but no matter you are incorrect in your assertion that Randy broke the law.

It's by his own admission, mate. Not by my assertion. He broke the law and he is trying to use a technicality to beat the system.

Pollution from gasoline and oil does count, you know. If his dredge is like others I've seen, the exhaust can be (and often is) redirected to below the water to keep the sound and smoke down.

Posted on: May 23, 2012, 03:35:27 AM
I'll say this again and again until it gets through to you all.

If you don't like a law, don't break the law to prove it. Start doing what needs to be done to change it.

Join the GPAA. We fight for mining rights including striking down ALL of the dredging laws in ALL states. Randy won't get any help from them because he broke the law and he admits it.

Don't you dare give me that stupid nonsense quote from Martin Niemöller. Nobody is coming for you, Gramps. They're after Randy. He made his bed. He can sleep in it.

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« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2012, 07:55:38 pm »
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First off guys we only have Randys side of the story where he is painting himself the victim which he may or may not be but until we have both sides of the story we can't judge can we.  


That Martin Niemöller. crap is just that crap some folks see a government conspiracy are a cover up every where.

We will not turn this into a political debate and if it heads that way I will mute the members that try and lock the thread.

Randy broke the law then whines when caught. If you can't do the time don't do the crime.     

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« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2012, 10:22:05 pm »
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Randy I want this baloney cleared up so here's the question.  Did you or did you not break the law?  Were you dredging w/o permit and or outside the allotted time period set by the state?

Die Wahrheit wird euch frei machen
    The truth shall set you free

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