A 5 million dollar adventure.

hardluck Topic starter

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #10 on: February 26, 2012, 06:38:30 am »

Hello Goldnboy

A very Good point. I could of been quite possible? But was Lord Kichener in on it? Huh?

?

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goldnboy

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #11 on: February 26, 2012, 04:50:23 pm »

Hello Hardluck

If its an inside job id think a few would be involved. Most likely those that were of high rank. Perhaps some research into how well off they lived after this event occurred could be worthwhile.
I do agree with your statements earlier of it being made into a documentary.That would be very interesting, I knew very little of the history until your first post on this subject.

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hardluck Topic starter

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #12 on: February 28, 2012, 02:09:07 am »

Hello Goldnboy

Trouble is the officer ranks was reflective of the class system of the day. Most if not all of the officer rank would of "had the old school tie" drafted through the private scholol system through the ranks of the landed gentry of which most of them came from privliged backgrounds with wealth and influence. So for them the need to risk thier military career for money involved it would seem a little foolhardy.

Another thing the average "grunt" Foot soldiers personel belongings were few. It would be very hard to conceal a theft in such crowded living conditions. And you can bet the first thing that would of happened by the officers was search through all enlisted mens belongings.

Did Kitchener conspire to steal the money himself? He was a wealthy lord himself and the lost money could of been black mark on his military career.

There is two possabilities one the story was invented by General Kitcheners rivals to discredit him or there really was a blunder?

Strangely Winston Churchill might be the answer. Churchill wrote a book about the military career of Lord Kicthener. So the book might have more details about the incident.

Hardluck

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #13 on: February 29, 2012, 02:36:04 pm »

I agree with hardluck, Winston Churchill might have the answers. Of course getting into Churchill's unpublished papers might be a bit challenging and wading through them would be a definite chore.
Personally, if there is any truth to the legends, my primary suspect would not be Kitchner or any of the other senior officers, but rather one of their batmen (British military equivalent of a butler). Such a person would have both means and opportunity and if questioned about some sort of "suspicious" behavior could always claim to be on an errand for his officer.

BA

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hardluck Topic starter

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #14 on: February 29, 2012, 05:38:08 pm »

Hello BA

You make a good point. Perhaps the butler did it? Grin

There might be more of a story to this, Kitcheners aid de camp was a Captain Oswald Fitzgerald.

Perhaps the story of throwing the gold overboard was a cover story to hide what happened to the gold?

In the sudan Kitchener rescued a substantial charitable fund which had been diverted into the pockets of the Khedive of Egypt, and put it to use improving the lives of ordinary Sudanese. It has never been explained what this fund was or what charity it was orginally from?

Was this charitble fund actually the alleged gold thrown over the side of the gun boat?

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 12:23:56 am »

Sounds like a job for "the Wrecking Crew"....after all we started out with less than that when it came to the missing C-47 and a few other legends. On the one hand we're talking a bit further back in time, but on the other hand we are talking events and people more subject to documentation and documentable gossip that what we've seen on some of the other stories. You're speculation about the charitable fund could be the kernel of truth the legend is founded on. And it could even be that a small part of the treasure was dumped over either deliberately or accidentally.

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hardluck Topic starter

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 01:32:53 am »

Hello BA

Seems like a good idea.

Reading more about Lord Kichener it appears he was a very secretive man and the type of leader unwilling to share his plans or delegate work. He was a bit of a control freak.

So clearly he would of taken charge the money under his personel protection. To lose the money due to poor communication would of been personel front to his ego?

Some books I have read do not mention the incident because they only mention briefly his Sudan expedition. There must of been an internal inquiry about the loss with in the Britsh army? Maybe a more in depth report on the loss still exists?

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« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 04:30:30 am by hardluck »	Logged

Idaho Jones

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #17 on: March 05, 2012, 07:36:12 pm »

Interesting ideas

I think a lot of what has been brought up supports the accidental dump story. If Kichener was a secretive control freak he probably didn't trust any of his crew with the knowlege of the gold. Ammo boxes would have been perfect cover as they would be expected to be heavy and quite natural to be loaded on the boat with no one suspecting anything.

The dump order might have been carried out by a junior officer without his knowlege.

Ammo has been turned up (although it's far from clear it came from this gunboat)

If he was already wealthy what did he have to gain that was worth the risk as was pointed out. Irregardless if it was an accident Kichener would take the blame and careers have been lost over less, not to mention a black mark to the family. I'd guess if it was a plot to steal the gold it was one or more of the crewmen.

Was Kichener reprimanded at all? Could it have been a political manuver to hide gold going somewhere else?

Did anyone from the crew pop up as doing quite well after their tour?

If the gold did get thrown overboard it should still be in clumps. It would sink immediately to the riverbed and seperate only after the container degraded or broke on the bottom. Unless someone opened the container and poured the contents in, but I can't imagine that someone would not notice gold in place of ammo.

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hardluck Topic starter

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #18 on: March 06, 2012, 04:54:45 am »

Hello Idaho Jones

For the Ammo boxes would they be still intact if they are buried deep in the mud away from oxygen and sunlight in a fresh water river?

The trouble with this treasure legend is that there is various scenarios that all are possible?

1. The coins were actually tossed overboard by a terrible mistake?

2. The whole story was an invention to discedit Kitchener as incompetent by his political enemies?

3. The story was invented as cover to hide the fact that they had been stolen?

4. The coins being accidental tossed overboard was cover for the fact that the funds had be diverted to rebuild the Sudan against the wishes of the British government?

All 4 scenarios have their merits?

Any thoughts on this?

Hardluck

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Idaho Jones

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	Re: A 5 million dollar adventure. « Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 07:34:13 pm »

Hardluck you could be totally correct that the ammo boxes are sealed up in mud and survived intact. Were they metal cans or more likely wooden crates given the time?

I am going to take a clue from my old friend Hardluck and say that I think to get to the bottom of this story we have to go back to the beginning.

I've been doing a little digging and no one so far seems to mention any gold during the Nile trip.

Was there any evidence pointing to the gold being on the ship besides the newspaper article? Maj Gen Kichener became Lord Kichener in 1898 as well as a few other titles looks like. Seems like losing 20000 gold soveriegns didn't dent his career much. hmmm....

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