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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2010, 04:26:08 pm »
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Hello Delmonte

 Welcome

Thank you for your very interesting post. You are most likely correct about the date. The newspaper stories written in 1948 claim the  event was in 1941, however they have most likely had their information secondhand.

Hardluck

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Offline Luc
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« Reply #41 on: September 26, 2010, 03:48:07 am »
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Hey delmonte

This is information that I did not have and for good reason because I have not read the book, but it will be repaired quickly, I join the list of my books to buy soon. Thank you for this information.

Kind regards

Luc

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« Reply #42 on: September 26, 2010, 04:04:37 am »
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Hello Luc,

It's not a book. The story is on line on the web, but in french, under the title : " le tr?sor des chartreux de villeneuve-les-avignon".

Good reading.

Delmonte

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« Reply #43 on: September 26, 2010, 04:13:05 am »
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Thanks Delmonte

I put the link here in French ------->

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Les Chartreux de Villeneuve-lez-Avignon


I put the link here in English with Google traduction ------->

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Villeneuve-lez-Avignon in English

All the best

Luc

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« Reply #44 on: September 27, 2010, 06:39:13 am »
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Hello all

Luc thank you for the links. It helped my poor old memory remember things. The more I read over the story again about the murder and the events around 1944. the question raised itself

" Is there any evidence to connect this 1944 story with monastery treasure? "

Are these events two different stories?

Thanking you in advance

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« Reply #45 on: September 27, 2010, 09:17:26 am »
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Hello all

Are these events two different stories? The response is yes.

Just something : Mr Canonge ( treasure Chartreux) and Mrs Furimond (the woman assassinated ) were good friends during last world war, and some Germans soldiers , when they were stationned at Villeneuve les Avignon from 1941 to 1944, also looked  for the cartusian treasure, without result, because generally nobody spoke to them, except their french friends.

Delmonte

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« Reply #46 on: September 27, 2010, 10:48:22 am »
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Hi all

I found on the Internet, a site of the Archives of the Herault d?partement, Regional Judicial Police, a murder in Villeneuve-les-Avignon (former department of Gard) (1944) (No. of 9258....No. 9601) link the website click here-->: "

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Archives de l'H?rault
"

I did not find how to achieve this information without moving in Montpellier, place of archives.

Below the copy of my research on Google site:

I write :"1944 meurtre villeneuve les avignon herault"

Result

"Archives de l'H?rault : Service r?gional de la police judiciaire ...
Notamment n? 9257 : tentative de meurtre ? Lunel (H?rault) (1944) ; n? 9258 .... n? 9601 : homicide volontaire ? Villeneuve-les-Avignon (Gard) (1944) ...
[Indice de popularit? du site: #278,131] archives.herault.fr/Service_regional_de_police_judiciaire-1515.html?... -
"

All the best

Luc

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« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2010, 03:09:56 am »
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Hello All

Thank you Delmonte for helping to confirm my suspicions. Luc well done with the police records.

If I was to speculate with the fate of Mrs Furimond, that because of her relationship with the Germans and apparent business dealings with looted gold. She may have been murdered simply as she was seen as a collaborator with the Germans?

However I feel we need to look deeper into the Mysterious stranger in 1925?

This tall blond headed blue eyed man that appeared in 1925 that claimed he was a descendant and wanted to be alone in Priors house to pray is a mystery?

It was this mans suspicious actions that led to the discovery of the stone map in the loft.

Was he a monk?
Was he working of behalf of the Monks?
Or was he something else?

Most of all where would he obtained information about the mysterious stone map in the Priors house?

These are hard and intriguing questions as they have no easy answers.

If he was a monk would he have came from Spain where the order fled to in 1792?


Perhaps we need to understand the nature of the Carthusian Order and how they functioned?


A Carthusian Charterhouse might best be described, paradoxically, as a community of hermits. There are no abbeys and each house is headed by a prior and is populated by choir monks, referred to as hermits, and lay brothers.

Each hermit- that is, a monk who is or who will be a priest - has his own living space, called a cell, usually consisting of a small dwelling. Traditionally there is a one-room lower floor for the storage of wood for a stove, a workshop as all monks engage in some manual labour. A second floor consists of a small entryway with an image of Mary, the Mother of Jesus as a place of prayer, and a larger room containing a bed, a table for eating meals, a desk for study, a choir stall and kneeler for prayer.

 Each cell has a highly walled garden, wherein the monk may meditate as well as grow flowers for himself and/or vegetables for the common good of the community, as a form of physical exercise.

The individual cells are organised so that the door of each cell comes off a large corridor. Next to the door is a small revolving compartment?called a "turn"--so that meals and other items may be passed in and out of the cell without the hermit having to meet the bearer.

 Most meals are provided in this manner, which the hermit then eats in the solitude of his cell. There are two meals provided for much of year, dinner and supper. During seasons or days of fasting, just one meal is provided. The hermit makes his needs known to the lay brother by means of a note, requesting items such as a fresh loaf of bread, which will be kept in the cell for eating with several meals.

The hermit spends most of his day in the cell: he meditates, prays the minor hours of the Liturgy of the Hours on his own, eats, studies and writes (Carthusian monks have published scholarly and spiritual works), and works in his garden or at some manual trade.

Unless required by other duties, the Carthusian hermit leaves his cell daily only for three prayer services in the monastery chapel, including the community Mass, and occasionally for conferences with his superior. Additionally, once a week, the community members take a long walk in the countryside during which they may speak; on Sundays and feastdays a community meal is taken in silence. Twice a year there is a day-long community recreation, and the monk may receive an annual visit from immediate family members.

The Carthusians do not engage in work of a pastoral or missionary nature. Unlike most monasteries, they do not have retreatants and those who visit for a prolonged period are people who are contemplating entering the monastery. As far as possible, the monks have no contact with the outside world. Their contribution to the world is their life of prayer, which they undertake on behalf of the whole Church and the human race.

In addition to the choir monks there are lay brothers, monks under slightly different types of vows who spend less time in prayer and more time in manual labour; they live a slightly more communal life, sharing a common area of the charterhouse. The lay brothers provide material assistance to the choir monks: cooking meals, doing laundry, undertaking physical repairs, providing the choir monks with books from the library and managing supplies. All of the monks live lives of silence.

I cannot see the Carthisian Monks having any sort of descendants due to the life they led. Or even if they did they would of put their order first before and family.

As you can see, these monks were not the laborers of the Charterhouse, But perhaps this alleged descendant in 1925 was once related to one of the lay brothers of the order?

Now getting back to the question Was he a monk from the order in Spain?

It is said that the Monks fled to Tarragona Spain. Perhaps we need to know more what was happening there? Perhaps know that we might be able to understand if it was possible for a monk or a representative to search for treasure in Villeneuve les Avignon in 1925.

Hardluck


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Offline Luc
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« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2010, 07:03:51 am »
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Hey all 

[idea]Thank you, for this recall of the rules of monastic life and especially those of the Carthusian monks. Who was this person who isolated himself in this monk's cell, and where from he came. Really question remains put down, it can also be about a researcher who employing a stratagem succeeded in staying alone in this cell to deepen his researches.

the Spanish way is not has move aside.

Luc




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« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2010, 07:43:27 am »
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Hello Luc

You have a good answer to the question about this mysterious stranger in 1925. It is the most logical answer that this man was a treasure hunter.


 I have been looking for information about the Carthusians Monks when they fled to Tarragona in 1793.

I  have not been able to establish a exact date of the establishment of Carthusian monastery in Tarragona before 1883 when Carthusain monks distilled their famous herb base liqueur there. There are 2 dates given another is 1903. It seem Tarragona was a place of refuge as over the years several times they were exiled there.

Digging back to the earlier account of Pascal the solider who went away to war with the Polish Legion during the Napoleonic era. I  have confirmed that the 4th regiment of the Polish legion did fight in Spain and was in Tarragona.

So it is quite possible as the story says that Pascal met the last head Prior of the Cathusian Monastery of Villeneuve les Avignon in Tarragona in 1811.

As you can see I being toying with story all day. It been a bit of brain teaser for me. Grin

hardluck.

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