[x] Welcome at THunting.com!

A fun place to talk about Metal Detecting, Treasure Hunting & Prospecting. Here you can share finds and experience with thousands of members from all over the world

Join us and Register Now - Its FREE & EASY

THunting.com
Treasure Hunting & Metal Detecting Community
   
Advanced Search
*
Welcome, Guest! Please login or register HERE - It is FREE and easy.
Only registered users can post and view images on our message boards.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
Or Login Using Social Network Account
2
News:
Pages:  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8   Go Down
Print
Share this topic on FacebookShare this topic on Del.icio.usShare this topic on DiggShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on Twitter
Tags:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline DragunX5Topic starter
Copper Member
*

Join Date: Oct, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
United Kingdom
Posts: 60
Referrals: 0

260.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Whites Prizm VI - DetectorPro Headhunter Pulse
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2009, 11:32:54 am »
Go Up Go Down

Yes Guys, great comments.

A lot of it is rocky terrain too, and if the stories were correct and the killing occured in castle gap, then the treasure would not have gone far. Mountains on both sides dictate that the soldiers would only go up or down the passage. Like you say idaho jones, the weight of the cache would have been too heavy have gone far, but i guess we may not yet know whether the wagons were burned straightaway or used to carry the loot then burned.

Agreed Hardluck, i believe we havent even scratched the surface of this mystery but with time i hope we can have  a collection of great facts and reference material. Will have a float around to get an aerial view of the area. Key is also to find a reference as to where the rivers and crossings were as they are not labelled on modern maps, as you say maybe dried out over the years and not charted as a river or crossing. Once we can find direction of their travel,. solid facts and names and events.....things could get interesting.



Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55631.html#msg55631




Logged
Offline VolNation
Pull Tab
*

Join Date: Oct, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%

United States
Posts: 19
Referrals: 0

70.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

GTI 2500/Minelab Sov
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2009, 02:58:31 pm »
Go Up Go Down

I have heard a similar story about the Beeville area of Texas. That is quite a way away.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55644.html#msg55644




Logged
Offline hardluck
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2009, 06:12:29 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Hello everyone

Here is another newspaper story San Antonio Light September 28 1936


Sunken Treasure

By Edwin C. Hill

A treasure seeking expedition
which is even now properly At first glance.
appear to be the remotest connection
between young Otto, archduke
of Austria, and the barnacled hulk
of- an old steamship, lying these
many years on the Atlantic sea.
floor off the coast of Virginia.

 But the association is there?or, at
least, some people who believe in
the enduring power of anathema
will tell you so.
For young Otto of Austria, son
of ,a tragically unfortunate royal
house, and the hulk of the steamship
Merida are strangely, linked
by the historic "curse of the House
of Hapsburg."

Are combing the ocean for the gold bullion
which went down with the Merida,
seeks also the emeralds and rubies
which once belonged to the Emperor
Maximilian of Mexico and his
empress, Carlotta.

The Monroe Doctrine. Washington ordered
Napoleon to get out of Mexico or
take the consequences. An. army
under General Sheridan was ready
to cross the Rio Grande and enforce
the order.

Napoleon deserted Maximilian and withdrew
the French troops. The Mexican republicans
arose, overthrew the
monarchy, and shot the unhappy
Maximilian against, a stone wall
at Queretaro.

Carlotta, stunned by the tragedy,
went mad. For 5 years she lived
on, in a chateau in Belgium, her
darkened mind still dwelling in the
past, still dreaming that she was
the empress.. She was still alive
when the Great war began and the
German troops poured through
Belgium under strict orders not to
molest her home where an American
flag floated over the gateway.

When the unfortunate Maximilian
was captured and shot In 1867
his treasure was seized by the Mexican
republic. Early In 1911, when
Porfirio Diaz, the dictator of Mexico,
was overthrown, a , group of
Mexican aristocrats fled with the
treasure. They escaped from Mexico
on board the American steamship
Merida. And the Merida
steaming northward to New York
was rammed and sunk on May 12'
1911, by the steamship Farragut
off the Virginia capes.

Maximilian was a brother of the
Austrian e m p e r o r , Francis Joseph.
His wife, Carlotta, was a
daughter of Leopold I, king of the
Belgians. When they were married
in 1857, she was only 16, very Beautiful,
very ambitious. Maximilian
was then governor or Milan, for
the Austrian* at that time held all
of northern Italy.

Louis Napoleon, Napoleon 3rd
dreaming of a new French empire
In North America, and seizing his
chance while the United States was
rent by civil war. sent an army
to Mexico and occupied the country.
Persuaded by Louis Napoleon
and urged by the ambitious Carlotta,
his wife, Maximilian consented
to be crowned emperor of Mexico.

Civil war ended, the
United states government turned
its attention to Mexico and its re-
Responsibilities under the Monroe
In the meantime,It has been told
that the treasure of jewels and
gold which had been hers and
Maximilian's had been smuggled
from the .Mexican treasury to the
ill-fated ship Merida.

Over that treasure hung the curse
which has followed the Hapsburg
family to this day. For-this
greater part of the treasury was
from looted temples. Back in the
Sixteenth century an ancestor of
Maximilian robbed a Burmese temple
of rubies" and diamonds Carlota,
herself, added to these a store
of gorgeous emeralds from ancient
Aztec temples In Mexico.

 One must believe that the anger of
Burmese and Aztec priests followed
their stolen Jewels from all that followed.
Maximilian dethroned and executed;
Carlotta, a mad woman,
doomed to live on half a century
in her madness; the treasure itself
at the bottom of the sea
And young Otto, too, may be under
the blight of the curse which
was leveled against the house of
Hapsburg a hundred years ago by
the Countess Karnlyl, whose son
had been executed by the Austrian
government. Face to face with Emperor
francs,, Joseph, she spoke'
these frightful words: "May heaven
and hell blast your happiness! May
your family be exterminated! May
your children be brought to ruin
and your life wrecked! And yet
may you live on in lonely unbroken
find horrible grief to tremble when
you recall the name Karnlyl."

Hardluck  Wink
.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55653.html#msg55653




Logged
Offline hardluck
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2009, 07:03:49 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Hello Again

There is also a story in the New York Times in 1911.

The story tells of the arrest of two Mexicans, Valino Preza and Alejandro Marcecci. Who were arrested by special treasury agent William Theobald.

The had first approached a well known jeweler in New York claiming that they had Maximilian's Jewels for sale. When he refused to have any thing to do with it they as if he appraise the value of the items.

He agreed and told them to come back later and he called the police and they were arrested. General George Mindel a government expert on gems is making a report for Collector Bidwell.

If the stones were part Maximilian's treasure then it is supposed it will create problems with Mexico. And Mexico may lay claim to the Gems.

Papers found on Preza have been translated but officials have refused to make public thier contents.

The Mexican insisted that they were jewels were from Maximilian's crown. However expert were at a disagreement of the exact origin of the gems.


As you can see there are many stories relating to the treasures associated with Maximilian.
Wagons loads of gold and gems fleeing across Mexico to the United States to Saftey? Or on a ship that sail from Mexico but was rammed and suck in collision off the coast of Virginia?

Which ones are true? Are any of them True? Are all the stories true? Is there more than one treasure confusing the issue?

And what of the Mexicans trying to sell gems from which they claim came from Maximilian's crown?

It is always one of the most intriguing mysteries of researching treasure legends.

The truth can be far different than the legends we hear today.

Hardluck  Cool

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55662.html#msg55662




Logged
Offline hardluck
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2009, 11:48:44 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Hello everyone again

From the American Legends website: In the Castle Gap Area  there are 8 treasure legends.It is alleged by local lore that...

Treasure hunters still frequent the gap in search of any of eight treasures supposedly lost in the vicinity. They include gold said to have been cached by Francisco V?squez de Coronadoqv in 1540, the Catholic Cross Cache of 1780, a horseshoe keg full of gold lost by a returning California Forty-niner, a Butterfield stage treasure hidden in 1860, gold cached by Old Bill Castle and Little Bill Castle in the 1860s, $40,000 stashed by outlaws who preyed on passing wagoners, gold and rifles from a United States Army wagon train of the late 1860s, and the treasure of Mexican emperor Maximilian, stashed in 1867.

Could the wagons and the gold found by John Calvert actually been from gold cached by Old Bill Castle and Little Bill Castle in the 1860s? Where it is said $40,000 stashed by outlaws who preyed on passing wagoners, gold and rifles from a United States Army wagon train of the late 1860s.

Calvert could of assumed that what treasure he found once belonged to Maximilian?

I have other reasons to suspect this.

When Benito Ju?rez had Maximilian shot, the royal treasury was sized. President had a long run of autocratic rule however his time had come in 1872, another dictator Porfirio D?az took over and by 1911when revolution happened again. The treasure consisting of 599 gold bars and jewelery from the late Maximilian was shipped from Mexico to New York United States.

However there was a collision between the treasure ship Merida and Farragut off the Virgina coast in 1911 in which the Merida sank with her treasure.

In 1931 there was a claim from a fish monger in London who claimed to the Maximilans son. Strange he waited until after his so called mother the empress, Carlotta to die 1927. He put in a claim on the treasure hunters that were searching for the ship wreck.

Whatever the results this dubious charter by the mid 1930's was not heard of. However by by 1937 the shipwreck was slowing being salvaged by divers. Newspaper reports in 1938 gave more details on the cargo. Such as 599 gold ingots. Crown Jewels plus 25 tons of silver.

The Expedition was being funded by the principle insurer Lloyd's of London. What ever was salvaged from the shipwreck was never revealed. where it ended up after that is any bodies guess.

You can see the only know surviving picture of the Merida below.

Another thing I have from another early document have a picture of jewels. see below. Sorry for the poor quality as it was taken from an early newspaper.

It is interesting that I may have traced a link to the source of one of the gems said to come from Burma. The item is made up of Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphire and Emeralds. But that is another story.

Hardluck  Cool



Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55702.html#msg55702



There are 3 attachment(s) in this post which you can not view or download

Please register for viewing them.

2163460856_dbd7269986.jpg
Maximilans jewels.jpg
tbt_castlegap1.jpg


« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 12:30:21 am by hardluck »
Logged
Offline DragunX5Topic starter
Copper Member
*

Join Date: Oct, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
United Kingdom
Posts: 60
Referrals: 0

260.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Whites Prizm VI - DetectorPro Headhunter Pulse
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2009, 06:19:49 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hey Great Articles!  Great

Vey interesting, seems like there are a multitude of different accounts and events that have took place. Last night
i also read the same thing about the different accounts of things that have been buried in Castle Gap.

I had a look on the net about the Ship Merida but could not find much information on her. But it begs the question, why would he send
a cache to galveston texas to be shipped back to europe when he had the Merida at his disposal....or did the cache infact
reach Galveston and that infact was the cargo that was on the Merida.

With regards to the other treasure in castle gap i read on a site that castle gap in private property, and other hunters used dynamite to
try and find the caches (lord knows why?) and that the whole path of castle gap has been obliterated...its a shame but would love to run a detector around that area.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55716.html#msg55716




Logged
Offline Idaho Jones
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Apr, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 1560
Referrals: 0

7930.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2009, 09:19:23 pm »
Go Up Go Down

So the real trick here is to decipher who is creating the cover story.

I would guess that the two mexicans trying to sell the treasure was probably a con gone bad. If they really had that treasure it would likely be in the Smithsonian regardless of who it would piss off.  Grin

I can see concocting a cover story of bandit rebels stealing it to cover a secret movement, but then I can also see them saying it went down on a ship to cover losing it to rebel bandits...  Shocked

If I was making a guess I would say the Meridia was a cover story possibly concocted to recover insurance monies and save face with other countries. It also serves the purpose of putting the treasure outside the grasp of most treasure hunters possibly to buy time to recover it.

Total swag but it sure is fun Cheesy

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55850.html#msg55850




Logged
Offline hardluck
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2009, 10:22:07 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Hello Idaho Jones

You make some excellent points.

We can come to many different plausible conclusions from what is posted here. The thing that bothers me with the Castle gap story is...

Why would any Mexican to to flee with Maximilan's treasure to United States? The United States under the Monroe doctrine supported the revolution to overthrow Maximilian. The United States supported Benito Ju?rez.They would of sent the treasure back to the republic.

Another thing Mexicans absolutely loathed their foreign puppet ruler. Things were so bad for Maximilan that it was only his own Prussian guard and French Foreign legionaries that supported him. Why would the Mexicans help him steal their treasure out of Mexico in the first place?

The United States still dirty of the French Invasion of Mexico, during the united States civil war had not forgotten to what they saw a a treacherous act. As soon as the civil war was over the United States Navy blockaded Vera Cruz and planed to invade Mexico to oust Maximilan.

Napoleon 3rd realizing that any chance of winning a war with the United States was imposable. Because if the United States had invaded Mexico they would of been seen as liberators. Napoleon revised the tactical error of his invasion and withdrew his support of Maximilian leaving him to his fate.

Some historians state that Benito Ju?rez captured the entire royal treasury of Maximilian's who had no friends and no place to send it to. But did he?Huh?

Now what is interesting is the story of those confederates...They had been invited to Mexico by Maximilian to create colonies after the American Civil war. historians tell of a colony.

The New Virginia Colony was a colonization plan in central Mexico, to resettle ex-Confederates and any other immigrants from any nation. And other Americans after the American Civil War. The largest settlement was Carlota, approximately midway between Mexico City and Vera Cruz, although other settlements were planned near Tampico, Monterrey, Cuernevaca, and Chihuahua.]

The venture was conceived by Commodore Matthew Fontaine Maury. Because of his work for the Confederate Secret Service with James D Bulloch, Maury was unable to return home to Virginia.Maury, as an internationally famous oceanographer, and navy man was a long-time friend of Maximilian and had been awarded a Medal by Maximilian before the civil war. Maximilian had also been head of the Austrian navy and awarded Maury the medal for his work in oceanography. Maximilian liked Maury and his idea of inviting Confederates and anyone else to resettle in Mexico, and offered land grants to any who would come and stay. Slavery had not been allowed in Mexico before Maximilian arrived and still was not allowed so no settler could bring in any slave into Mexico. The new Emperor was also eagerly seeking settlers from Germany, Austria, and France, as part of his strategy to rebuild Mexico and mostly as a Europeanized country.


Maximilian was shot in 1867, and the New Virginia Colony settlements mostly vanished. The peak population of these settlements is not known, but seems to have been no more than a few thousand.

So it still could of been passable after collapse of the above colonies that Confederates not Mexicans, fled with some of the treasure of Maxilian's treasury?

I can confirm confederate interest in this from an 1865 newspaper article. Some disaffected confederates seeing the cause in the US was lost threw in their lot with Maximilian.

So in conclusion perhaps indeed some confederates fled back to the United States with some treasure?

Very interesting.  Shocked



Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55857.html#msg55857




« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 10:24:36 pm by hardluck »
Logged
Offline Idaho Jones
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Apr, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 1560
Referrals: 0

7930.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2009, 11:04:46 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Yet another version I found which bears only slight resemblance to the others. At least we can be reasonably sure what happened to Napoleon and Maxamillion lol

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.williamwhitebooks.com/index.html


Quote:

THIS STORY IS TAKEN FROM THE BOOK TALES OF THE CABALLOS

CARLOTTA'S CROWN

Not many are familiar with this tale and how it intertwines with the Caballo Mountains but like all of the stories in this book it is based on fact and credible witnesses.  Carlotta's Crown is no different from so many tales except that it involves Mexico, Napoleon and Maximillian.

    At the time when the French forces under Emperior Napolepn were rampaging through Europe, Napoleon decided to extend his influence into the new world.  Deep down in his guts he knew that eventually he would rule the world so why not jump-start the process in Mexico?  To this end Napoelon installed Maximillian of Austria and his wife Carlotta as the king and queen of Mexico.  To ensure this end, Napoleon left a formidable army in Mexico City. 

    Maximillian and Carlotta moved into the imperial palaces in Mexico City and made themselves at home.  There were once again Europeans dictating to the Mexican people.  The Mexicans hated it but felt at the time that nothing could be done about it.  And so it was until the time when the war in Europe started going bad for Naopleon.

    As you may have expected, Napoleon promptly withdrew his troops who were desperately needed elsewhere. Maximillian and Carlotta would just have to fend for themselves. 
    Knowing that the end was near, Maximillian quickly gathered his treasures and sent them north with Carlotta in an attempt to reach New Orleans and hopefully passage back to Austria.  Maximillian himself remained behind to stall the attackers and direct the defence of the palace. On what was to become the Mexican Independence Day, Cinco De Mayo, (the fifth of may) the attackers successfully stormed the palace and Maximillian was put to death.  This ended once and for all the European intervention in Mexico.

    Meanwhile, Carlotta was safely on her way when disaster struck at a place now known as Castle Gap, Texas.  There her small party was attacked by a well-coordinated force of Apache Indians.  Only Carlotta herself managed to escape the massacre.

    Carlotta eventually appeared in Yuma, Arizona (a sea-port at the time) and was given a paupers passage back to Europe.  She lived out her days in seclusion and died of old age in Austria.

    Maximillian's treasure was split up among the Chiefs, one of whom happened to be the famous Apachie Chief Victorio.  Victorio had no real use for this booty so he took it to what is now known as White Sands, New Mexico.  There is a place there that was to become known as Victorio Peak.  It was in the tunnels and caves beneath this mountain that Chief Victoria stashed his treasure and among the items taken that day in Texas was Carlotta's Crown.  Here it remained until our famous treasure hunter Doc Noss appeared on the scene with information gleaned from under the dead hand of Padre LaRue

    I have seen photographs of this crown.  It has over two hundred diamonds and two large pigeon blood rubies on it.  It is quite spectacular even in a photograph.  This photograph was taken by Ova Noss (Doc's wife at the time) and was in the possession of Jerry Cheetem, Ova's grandson.

    Doc Noss brought the crown back to Hot Springs, New Mexico and left it in his house.  During this time, Ova cleaned the crown and eventually took it down to the local butcher shop and had it weighed on the butcher scales.  This proved to be a major mistake because when Doc Noss heard of it he became insensed.  So angry was he that he loaded up all things the family held valuable in a metal trunk and left with them.  Upon his return he would only say that he had buried the valuables in Ash Canyon.  The Crown has never been seen since.   

    Many a search has been conducted in the Ash Canyon that runs behind Turtleback Mountain to no avail.  Personally, I have never thought the crown was there.  There is another Ash Canyon in Longbottom Canyon and I feel that it is stashed somewhere near there.  I feel that the Crown is on or in the mountain somewhere.  It, like so many other treasures is out there waiting for the right one to come along and claim their prize.

    So put on your good hiking boots, stow some trail mix in your back pack, take lots of water and a quality metal detector  and get to work.  Carlotta's Crown is out there waiting for someone and it may be you. 
end quote
Grin

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55873.html#msg55873




Logged
Offline DragunX5Topic starter
Copper Member
*

Join Date: Oct, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
United Kingdom
Posts: 60
Referrals: 0

260.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Whites Prizm VI - DetectorPro Headhunter Pulse
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2009, 09:23:00 am »
Go Up Go Down

Haha great stuff guys!

Im temped to just fly over there with a six pack of redbull and a shovel and just dig random holes everywhere see what comes up hehehe  Cheesy

Its a tough one, many different stories and too many people involved who, like you say could have easily came up with cover stories.
Idaho, you are in the states, maybe take a trip down there and have a poke around Smiley If you dont find anything atleast it would be a great
night of camping out in the stars Smiley

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,8842.msg55934.html#msg55934




Logged
Print
Pages:  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8   Go Up
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines | Sitemap
Copyright THunting.com