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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« on: April 24, 2010, 11:39:25 pm »
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Hello All

If there is one name synonymous with the word pirate it would be Captain William Kidd. There is no more a powerful pirate image of this somewhat unsuccessful pirate and his alleged treasure that has burned its place into public Imagination. Except for Captain Jack Sparrow with his braided designer hair and mascara of course.  Grin

So much has been written and claimed about this tragic figure that much of his life and death has become intertwined.What is true and what is sheer fantasy?

His main claim to fame is his statement before his execution that he had buried treasure in the Indies.

I am interested in find out peoples thoughts on this following question. Are you a Believer or disbeliever in the Kidd treasure legend?

If so what are your conclusions in believing or disbelieving?

Please keep to the question as I am interested in understanding the power of this story that has become some thing of a religion for some.

Hardluck.  Smiley

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Offline Sue
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 09:47:18 am »
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I've read that, at his trial, he admitted to some treasure being buried at Gardiner's Island and it was recovered. Maybe that was his share. I believe that was the only time a "pirate" admitted to burying treasure. Sue

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Offline seldom
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2010, 10:44:41 am »
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I think his statement before his execution was just a delay tactic. As for treasure in the Indies not a big believer.

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If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 11:19:45 am »
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I am sceptical with the caveat that I cannot prove he did not have more treasure buried.

However everything I have read says he only took a handfull of prizes. Where did the treasure come from? Were some ships fabulously rich? If so why did most of his crew bail out for another pirate captain? How much can you do with 13 men?

Why tell anyone you have a treasure? Maybe to buy time? Kidd was sure he had big friends that would save him. Even to the last days he kept thier secrets and they left him to hang. Many of the venture capitalists for his journey stood trial later but none convicted so I have read.

I have read accounts stating he started boasting of treasure on the return voyage to clear his name. I have also heard he was recognized by the governor on a street while living incognito and captured. If so then he could have made the maps and hidden them in his furniture. Why though if they existed would he not have used them as part of the proof? Obviously by themselves they are not enough to find the treasure since no one has yet. I believe he used the one treasure claim, his share as Sue said, to buy his way out. When the court was unswayed he tried the tactic again, a treasure only he could find. No one bought it and he was hung. Why then would none of his men know where it was? Would they not retrieve it themselves? Kidd didn't bury it alone so when he hung it should be fair game for any left. Perhaps they did and we will never know. Perhaps it just didn't exist.

The maps showed up after Treasure Island was written. Robert Louis Stevenson wrote Treasure Island loosly based off Kidd's venture. I can imagine there was a pirate craze much like Capt Jack and crew have caused. Either for fun or profit I believe they were drawn by someone other than Kidd. He wouldn't have needed that general of a map himself and if he drew it for someone else to find he failed miserably, much like his pirate career.

I don't think Kidd told the treasure tale to make a name for himself, simply because he came back trying to clear his name. However if he did he certainly succeeded on that part as his name will live forever as Capt Kidd pirate captain even though he was probably the least successful pirate ever.

I found a few articles about Kidds treasure all over Manhatten, I'll post em when I can find em


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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 05:25:35 pm »
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Hello All

Thank you for the interesting comments.

I do not claim to be an expert on Captain Kidd,I do not know if he had buried treasure himself or he had information about another pirate treasure he wanted to trade to save his skin. But I cannot buy into the 4 alleged Kidd charts found in the 1930's.

Hugh Palmer who happened to have his own pirate museum managed to uncover not one but 4 charts. All found in alleged furniture supplied by the same antique dealer in Bristol. And we have Harold T Wilkins a prolific author who cashed in on the treasure hunting craze of the 1930s wrote many books as a so called authority on the subject.

In his latter years by Harold T Wilkins own admission that he drew the maps because he was under pressure to produce the maps for his book. None of the maps stand up to any scrutiny. The writing is not 17th century, There is a mixture of English and Spanish, the paper the map was drawn on is 20th century machine produced paper. And they is no real record of the documents ever been authenticated in the British Museum. And when there was an offer to properly evaluate the real charts the were suddenly bought by a mysterious buyer in Canada, never to see the light of day again.

And yet thousands of hopeful searchers have wrote books on the subject and have spend thousands of hours toiling over charts that were written in the 1930.s looking for hidden meanings.

But for me an Expert of the Captain Kidd saga, (I will not mention his name.) who has sold many books on his interpretation of the charts, finally admitted to me that the charts were fake.But it didn't stop him from selling his books with host of interpretations leading to an treasure island off the coast of Vietnam.

It seems for some it is more profitable to keep the legend alive than to uncover the real story of this some what tragic figure.

Here are the other 2 charts of Kidd's alleged treasure map.

Just my 2 cents.

Hardluck  Wink

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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 06:59:30 pm »
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Just a few of the articles of the past claiming Kidd treasure in pdf below
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Kidd Daily Times 1881 07 21.pdf
Kidd Hawaiian Gazette 1902 4 11.pdf
Kidd Janesville Gaz 1870 4 16.pdf


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Offline csharp
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2010, 03:05:12 am »
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Hi

Hardluck

It becomes annoying to real Treasure Hunters when Book Authors would rather fabricate a story and misleading Treasure maps so to profit from, these authors take a real life documented person only read what other people or authors have written about them and run there imagination into there own pathetic twisted world of what they assume they might have done with a total disregard of knowing and untangling the truth.

As there have been so called captain kidd charts posted all over the internet and fabricated fake charts designed by authors they differ considerably and depict completely different Islands.

Were the charts that were well hidden within the chest or desk REAL - that would be the million dollar question, why were they well hidden and did they belong to captain kidd?

Why was he named Captain Kidd?

Did captain kidd even draw the charts or were they given to him?

Did captain kidd know the Island or where it was located?

Where are the real charts that kidd spoke about?

There is a lot to ask and investigate than just reading misleading authors trying to make a buck from fraudulent mind storming to suck in the unsuspecting Treasure Hunter wannabe.

Did that Author really admit that to you - what an imbecile, just go's to show what some Authors are willing to do when they become desperate in putting bread on the table and total disregard with not understanding what there actions do when people waste there time chasing there fabricated leads.

The English Museum don't have his charts!! they have fakes that are not even close, also they are posted on this site.

regards     

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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2010, 04:21:42 am »
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Hello Csharp

Did you ever find out the name of the pirate captured with Kidd at the same time?

Find out his name and I send you a real treasure chart authenticated by the British Library and Ashmolean museum.

Hardluck  Wink

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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2010, 07:00:35 am »
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Hi

Hardluck

There were a few arrested, but one comes to mind Butterworth.

Kidd grew up with Culliford as ship hands, Culliford was arrested in India by memory.

I'm preparing documents for my adventure, i will open my files and locate the person you are referring to if i failed to mention him.

Regards

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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2010, 08:33:30 am »
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Csharp I believe he became widely known as "Captain Kidd" from the newspaper articles of the time of the trial. They needed some piratical flare to sell some papers I'm guessing and it stuck with us.

Sorry the PDF files are hard to read, scans of papers from the 1800s are a little rough. I posted them to illustrate that any time anyone found a cache of coins it was attributed to Kidd. Why? Because he was local news and he said he had treasure right?

By all accounts his big haul he left behind entrusted to men who looted it and ran after he left. Possibly found here

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Hardluck you brought up a very valid point that Kidd might have run onto someone else's treasure, or the location of it. If he had more treasure I'd suspect that was the way he got it. Are you speaking of Samuel Burgess? I can see how he would have aquired a sizeable amount of treasure.   

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