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Offline hardluck
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2011, 02:34:36 am »
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Hello All

Christianity had over a thousand years to pervert itself before the 12th century.

What I find strange there is no mention of this Holy Grail for a thousand years after the event.

We must remember what was happening around 12 century across Europe and Britain. It was the peak of development of the early christian church that had evolved into the monastic system of monasteries and priory. These religious communities and institutions built up large amounts of wealth by acquiring land. Another way wealth was acquired was by tapping into the religious pilgrimages of early Christians.

Nearly every monastery in Europe had some sort relic to attract  Pilgrims. You could say the whole thing was an early form of medieval tourism.

Christ and his twelve apostles are still with us! They are scattered around Europe in thousands of churches and monasteries in bits and pieces. Along with bits of cross, the lance and some of the saints fingers somewhere. A whole industry evolved from it that we today call the souvenir industry.

So with all of that going on I am little suspicious of the source of the Grail story. Perhaps the Holy grail legend is nothing more than an early Medieval christian church propaganda.

Hardluck

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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2011, 07:36:38 am »
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The same cycle applies to the Sudarium of Oviedo, the Shroud of Turin and the Spear of Destiny. All showed up hundreds of years after the fact. Just sayin....

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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2011, 09:34:02 am »
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Quote:Posted by Idaho Jones
The same cycle applies to the Sudarium of Oviedo, the Shroud of Turin and the Spear of Destiny. All showed up hundreds of years after the fact. Just sayin....



Well said Jones even the christian bible was not written till many years later then books were add and deleted as need to control the believers.
So yep I can see every little church trying to out do each other by claiming to to have some great relic.

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If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2011, 06:30:05 pm »
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 Did you guys hear about some scrolls that were found recently by some Bedouin in Jordon and have somehow ended up in Israel. These could be possibly very important for answering some of the questions
 that have been possted on this thread.

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« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2011, 07:21:26 pm »
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They were apparently found by a Jordanian Bedouin between 2005 and 2007, when a flash flood exposed two niches inside a cave, and have since been taken to Israel.

Jordan says it will "exert all efforts at every level" to get the relics repatriated, claiming they were smuggled out of the country.

Archaeologist Mr Elkington is heading a British team trying to unravel the mysteries of the books and to get them safely into a Jordanian museum.

Whether the new find can help with the Grail mystery  is a long shot at best in my opinion

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« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2011, 10:08:57 pm »
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Agreed Seldom, the lead plates contain mostly images from what I have seen. Very rough and wide open to interpretation. While important and interesting if real, they have yet to be proven to be what they are portrayed. Who knows though, perhaps the sealed book contains the resting place? Hopefully the public will be given access to images of all the plates and not just a few biased scholars this time....

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« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2011, 09:24:15 am »
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Quote:Posted by Idaho Jones
Hopefully the public will be given access to images of all the plates and not just a few biased scholars this time....



Well Jones we know that want happen but we can hope.



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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2011, 03:41:28 pm »
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Quote:Posted by goldnboy
Did you guys hear about some scrolls that were found recently by some Bedouin in Jordon and have somehow ended up in Israel. These could be possibly very important for answering some of the questions
 that have been possted on this thread.

I read this article with interest:

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« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2011, 03:52:50 pm »
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It seems safe to say that early Grail writers understood they were trafficking in fiction. They felt no compunction about combining legends from far-flung cultures or introducing new twists. For example, the bit about Joseph of Arimathea using the Grail to collect the blood of Jesus first turns up in a Grail history by Robert de Boron that appeared around 1200. In the New Testament, Joseph is a minor figure, a wealthy disciple who obtains Jesus's body after the Crucifixion and furnishes the tomb. De Boron's history has him collecting the blood of Jesus in the Grail, then being imprisoned by the Jews for 40 years, during which time the Grail miraculously sustains him; afterward he travels to Britain and establishes its first Christian community. De Boron probably got some of these details from the apocryphal Gospel of Nicodemus, but that book doesn't even mention the Grail; seems pretty clear to me that de Boron was making a lot of things up.

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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2011, 05:48:48 pm »
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Hello All

GD thanks for the very interesting link.

I suspect that the eventual outcome will be that they are proved to be a fake. There is an industry in that part of the world producing archeological fakes and they are very good at it.

However there was some fundamental inconsistencies in his story and in the item that I  think in time will be proven. For example items lettering has been cast and the used of that type of book binding when items or documents from that time was always rolled scrolls.

The use of pictures was convenient because it did away with the chance of having text scrutinized. The alleged use of Phoenician could have been copied from elsewhere. The lead could of been sourced from a melted down object from antiquity.

However time and extensive forensic testing will tell either way.

Hardluck



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