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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« on: May 22, 2010, 06:00:17 am »
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Hello All

For one brief moment we were all captivated back in 2005. My how quick that time has gone! Grin Of the treasure allegedly claimed to have be found on the island that inspired Robinson Crusoe?

What was the truth behind the legends that sparked the media sensation that fizzled 3 weeks later into a circus of shameless promotion of a hoax?

Was there any truth to the treasure legends???

The treasure legend goes some thing like this.

In 1761, British Admiral Lord George Anson dispatched the English sailor Cornelius Webb to recover the treasure that Captain General Don Juan Esteban de Ubilla y Echeverria. buried on Mas a Tierra ( Juan Fernandez ). According to a poor translation of The Juan Fernandez Commune, Webb arrived in Mas a Tierra in 1761 and recovered Ubilla's treasure, and set sail, however a storm split the mast of the Unicorn.

Webb returned to Robinson Crusoe Island, reburied the treasure, and sailed to Valparaiso, Chile to repair his ships and then complete his mission. However, at this point, he learned the the crew planned to mutiny upon their return to Mas a Tierra, to seize the treasure for themselves. So, Webb promptly sailed from Valparaiso, and torched his ship, killing all hands at sea, and rowing himself back to Valparaiso. He was the sole survivor of the journey.

At this point, captain Cornelius Webb sent messages back to Lord George Anson, his sponsor back in England, explaining what had happened, and detailing the location of the buried treasure in code. Unfortunately, Anson died suddenly on June 6, 1762, 5 months before the arrival of Webb's envoy. These messages were presumed lost to antiquity.

Then, miracuously, after 190 years, the documents resurfaced in Northern England. In 1950, a stranger contacted Chilean physician Luis Cousi?o, a Crusoe Island resident, and sent him the documents.

One of the two letters that Webb had sent to Anson indicated that a third message was buried in Chile. After searching for a while, Luis Cousi?o managed to find the third treasure map in the bath(beach?) of Horc?n, (45 kilometers North of) Valparaiso, Chile.

In 1950, Chilean physician Luis Cousi?o and the Italian Count Di Giorgio searched for the treasure on Crusoe Island, in the town of San Juan Baptist, on Powder Street, but were unsuccessful.?


Bernard Keiser a successful businessman would made millions in the textile industry became involved when he saw a program on the TV about the treasure. The letters were passed down to Luis Cousi?o's ex-daughter-in-law, Maria Beech?, who still lives on the island today.He soon made a deal with Maria Beeche.

Armed with information Bernard Keiser spent several years searching for the treasure under a Chilean treasure trove permit. Under the permit he was not allowed to use machinery and after each season he had to fill in his excavations.

His quiet discreet search was broken when in 2005 Bernard Keiser when returning to the island is immediately pelted with questions from reporters. Cameras, microphones, tape recorders are shoved into his face. Your $10 billion treasure has just been found! By a high-tech robot! What do you have to say now, Gringo?

All of Chile is going ballistic. Islanders are already envisioning a new hospital and school. The mayor is demanding each resident should receive an equal share ? $8 million apiece.
The American is aghast. For six years he?s made this journey to the tiny island, hunting for an 18th century stash of gold. Each October he returns here to continue his excavations, in obscurity. But now his anonymity is gone forever.

All the money he has spent. The months of research. The wrangling of government permits. Only to have the treasure stolen away by a little wheeled robot named Arturito. Everyone in Chile is laughing at him.

Arturito was a four-wheeled, remote-controlled gizmo decorated with a rotating red light. Because the appliance resembled the Star Wars? R2D2, it was thus nicknamed ?Arturito,? or ?little Arthur.? A ground-penetrating sensor was supposed to identify buried metals up to 50 meters. Its owner, Wagner Technologies, claimed previous successes:

Arturito had located a cache of illegal weapons, and found the corpse of a missing businessman. Within two days, Arturito discovered three separate treasure locations at Robinson Crusoe. Media immediately fell in love with the cute robot, that claimed the gold for Chile.

The world waited with baited breath for one brief moments as weeks rolled by it became clear the whole discovery was nothing more than a publicity stunt that descended into circus. with claims and counter claims. At least 9 books have been written by so call authorities on the subject, The Chilean Government wrangled with Wagner technologies for an alleged discovery that turned out to be nothing more than a hoax.

I cannot imagine what Bernard Keiser would of went though? Undecided

Time passed by and the island went back to sleepy obscurity. Where is Bernard Keiser  today? Is he dreaming of returning to his quest or regretting the day he ever watched that treasure documentary? Grin

Treasure hunters comes from all walks of life from a million and one professions, what drives us to go these extremes. Is the challenge seen by wealthy treasure hunters? Or is it the dream of great wealth by the every day battler? What drives us?

These questions and a question all treasure hunters should take a deep breath and contemplate: Does the treasure really exist at all?

That is for me is what makes treasure legends so interesting?

Hardluck  Wink


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« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2010, 08:47:34 am »
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Another truly dedicated seeker, how great to follow a dream.

I found this interesting interview of which this is a small exerpt.


A fishing boat takes me to the rocky coast of Puerto Ingl?s (English Port), on the north side of the island. Since 1999, this small valley is where Keiser has been digging for Ubilla?s treasure. I don?t know what he looks like, but Americans are not hard to find. Only 600 people live here.

I walk past a group of Chilean excavators, working with hand trowels, and come to Selkirk?s Cave, a jagged hole in the hillside about 10 feet high. This cave was named for Alexander Selkirk, a Scottish sailor who was marooned on the island from 1704-1709. His experience formed the basis for Daniel Defoe?s classic novel Robinson Crusoe.

In 1968, the Chilean government renamed M?s a Tierra to Robinson Crusoe Island, to promote tourism. It certainly wasn?t to promote historical accuracy. The fictional Crusoe character was actually stranded in the Caribbean instead of the Pacific. Crusoe had a sidekick (Man Friday), Selkirk was alone. And a neighboring island, M?s Afuera, was renamed Alejandro Selkirk Island, even though Selkirk never set foot there.

A small bearded man sits inside the cave on a portable stool, sipping instant coffee. Bernard Keiser wears a yellow raincoat and safari hat with one side pinned up. His jeans are grubby with soil. A Kent cigarette lingers in his hand.

Is this Selkirk?s Cave, I ask.

?Well, it?s called Selkirk?s Cave,? he smiles. ?But he never lived here. They just say that, for the tourists.?

We start chatting, and when the subject of Arturito comes up, Keiser sighs and shakes his head.

?Name me one high-tech innovation that came from Chile ? there?s none,? he says in a flat Chicago accent. ?I told them, ?I don?t want to have anything to do with that company, that machine, with the little light on top.? It didn?t pertain to anything here at all.?

We examine the walls of the cave, covered with names and dates and odd petraglyphs. This room is where Keiser first began his research, and he believes the treasure was once hidden right here, beneath our feet. He points out each carving. The name ?ANSON.? A carving of a rose. An ?AB? surrounded by a diamond. An S-shaped design, with three holes.

?Man has a reason for doing everything he does,? he tells me. ?Especially in the olden days. When you see something, there must have been a reason for it.?

As he explains what each means, a whopper of a story begins to fall together. Some of it might be true, some is conjecture and guesswork, and weeks later, some details still doesn?t make sense. But an incredible tale nevertheless. Based on several years of research in England and Spain, his theory goes something like this:

In 1713 and 1714, Ubilla sailed to the island and stashed six to eight million pesos? worth of treasures. He carved an S-shaped map of South America into the cave wall, and also the diamond shape, which was stamped into silver bars to denote purification. To hide his theft, Ubilla doctored the ship?s manifest, low-balling the total. But before Ubilla could return to retrieve it, he was killed in the Florida Plate Fleet storm. (continued at site below)


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« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2010, 08:58:37 am »
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I like it Great

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« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2010, 09:18:15 am »
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Another site with pictures of Keiser and Arturito during the time of the "discovery"

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« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2010, 08:00:59 pm »
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Hello All

Like with all treasure legends there are two sides to the story.

In 1994 I saw briefly the 3 letters and maps too, That Maria Beeche presented in a documentary.

Maria Beeche is an artist who happens to own the only hotel guest house on the island. The guest house used to be owned by her father in law, the Islands only doctor who allegedly came across these letters to Anson in 1950 by a mysterious stranger. hmmmm...

The 3 letters and maps I saw were ball point pen written letters on modern papers in modern script not early 18th century documents. Maria Beeche has a easygoing nature to took all of what she had on face value. The reply she gave that theses were copies made in 1950 by her ex father in law of the actual letters that turned up in the archives of the Lord of the Admiralty.

In searching the records of the Admiralty no trace of these original letters can be found. Huh?

In searching for any newspaper reports of the discovery of these letters in England in 1950 also drew a blank.  Undecided

Lord Anson's private papers naturally revealed nothing of any arrangement with Cornelius Webb or the supposed voyage of the Unicorn to Juan Fernandez looking for treasure.

Investigating further into the admiralty records I came across the following.

HMS Unicorn was a 28-gun, Sixth Rate frigate of the Royal Navy. Originally ordered as a 24 gun ship to the draft of the French privateer Tyger. The third vessel of the Royal Navy to bear the name, the Unicorn, as well as the Lyme which was a near-sister, were the first true frigates built for the Royal Navy. They were actually completed with 28 guns including the four smaller weapons on the quarterdeck, but the latter were not included in the ship's official establishment until 22 September 1756. The two ships differed in detail, the Unicorn having a beakhead bow, a unicorn figurehead , two-light quarter galleries and only five pairs of quarterdeck gunports, while the Lyme had a round bow, a lion figurehead, three-light quarter galleries and six pairs of quarterdeck gunports.
The Unicorn was first commissioned in March 1749 under Captain Molyneaux Shuldham, under whose command she spent her first commission in the Mediterranean until returning home to pay off at Deptford in June 1752. After repairs, she was recommissioned in January 1753 under Captain Matthew Buckle, and sailed for the Mediterranean again in April 1753. In February 1756 command passed to Captain James Galbraith, then in that September to Captain John Rawling. After active and continuous service during the Seven Years War, she finally paid off in late 1763, and was broken up in 1771.


AS you can see the unicorn was at no time at Juan Fernandez, sunk off the coast of Valparaiso in 1761, or Captained by a Cornelius Webb?? Huh?

Finally all this happened during the 7 years war where England war later at war with Spain. Why would Cornelius web sail his ship to a Spanish held territory in the first place? Facing certain capture or worse?

As of yet there has been no evidence Captain General Don Juan Esteban de Ubilla y Echeverria existence or his connection with the 1715 plate fleet?

Anson did capture a treasure ship that made him rich and famous. If he had known about the treasure of Captain General Don Juan Esteban de Ubilla y Echeverria. He could of looked on Juan fernandez himself when he was there on the Centurion. 

The fact of the story there is no historical evidence to support this traesure legend.

Bernard Keiser is no doubt an intelligent man who built up a very successful business to make so many glaring errors of judgment is some thing all of us should learn from.

For all all us treasure hunters and would be treasure hunters resaerch and more resaerch is the key to avoiding the pain and heart break some times when your desires overtakes reason in searching for treasure.

The rewards is finding out the truth of the legend and not the necessary the loot. But of course a little treasure coming your way is always nice.  Grin

Juan Fernandez has a long history of pirates but does the island have any real hidden treasures???

Perhaps there is some scope to dig deeper into the history of the island?

Hardluck  Wink




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« Last Edit: May 22, 2010, 08:15:13 pm by hardluck »
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« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2010, 09:23:29 am »
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So true Hardluck, I was looking at Keiser and not the evidence used. Once again like another famous pirate story one must suspect simply a hoax to draw paying tourists. Most especially empassioned millionares. One has to wonder if the button Bernard found was planted or simply dropped by chance? Is the story simply false or twisted with some element of truth? Might be fun to find out. Smiley

I was a bit suspect of the part where Webb upon hearing of mutiny killed all his men. It sounded like an improbable and overly dramatic way to tie up loose ends so no one was left alive. Good thing Anson mailed those letters....

Other suspects. 

Something that makes me wonder is William Dampier came to the island twice at least perhaps more on very seperate expeditions. Once it seems was with a captain Cook (not James Cook). Perhaps just for water and food but it was after he had formerly served on a privateer of some success along the Peruvian coast and stopped at Juan Fernandez.

Later in the voyage with Cook, at Cape Blanco the captain died and a man named Davis (not Howell Davis) became captain. Leaving that expedition Dampier joined the ship of a man named Swan (no relation to the Swan's in the Pirates of the Carribean series) Apparently things went unwell and the men disappointed and about to starve decided to eat their leaders beginning with the lusty and fleshy Swan. Apparently a 6 month stop in the Phillippeans was good enough to abate their hunger. Dampere joined some expeditions to the East Indies then returned to England and 8 years later left in command of the Roebuck in 1699 headed to Australia which ended badly needing a lift home by an East Indiamen fleet. In 1703 he set out again with two vessels one of which carried Alexander Selkirk and is said tio have met greivous unsuccess. He then joined the crew of Woodes Rogers as pilot on the voyage that rescued Selkirk from JF.

Is it just me or was there a reason to visit that out of the way place clear across the world so many times?

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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2010, 02:25:15 am »
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Hello Idaho Jones

unfortunately Bernard Kaiser got too obsessed in his desire to find treasure he began to look at anything. It is very easy to do of course.

You are getting so close you can almost taste it.Your suspicions are taking you in the right directions   Grin

Juan Fernandez was of only three places along the entire south American coast to get water. Cocos Island to the north , St James Island in the Galapagos and Juan Fernandez to the south. Most pirates who rounded the horn headed for Juan Fernandez for repairs and water and fresh meat away from the Spanish.

Was there other treasure possibly buried on this Island???

It is an intriguing question. Juan Fernandez has long history of pirates.

You could be right at the possibility of treasure of a treasure connected to Davis. His stay on coast of South America longer than anyone else and he stayed leader longer than anyone else. No better testament to Davis leadership skills.

It is interesting to note that Edward Davis and William Knight who was successful in plundering the south American coast. Shared out 5000 gold coins per man on Juan Fernandez in 1686.Some reports claim between knight and Davis there was about 130 men. That would of been about 650,000 coins. Swan who had parted company with them earlier wanted a share but Davis and his men refused. Most of the men returned home except those who had lost their money gambling.

That money in today's terms would be staggering amount of money. Shocked

Strange enough when Edward Davis was caught with 2 others in Virginia America he only had about 800 dollars of treasure on him.  Davis was captured the around same time William Kidd in 1699 was captured. As I alluded to in another post about Captain Kidd. Did Kidd find out about the location of treasure buried by Davis?

 In the early 17th century East Indies was considered Asia and pacific. The later South Seas term became more popular when more Islands were being discovered across the pacific.

And Captain Kidd may of used that archaic term and wanted to use that knowledge of Davis treasure to save his own life???

 It is interesting to note earlier accounts mention that the men were payed 5000 coins each, other larger items they had plundered. they had to bid for as an agreement of division of spoils. What happened to the larger items such a valuable church plate etc is still open to speculation.

Was this heavier treasure items buried on Juan Fernandez?

Below is 1682 map of Juan Fernandez made by Basil Ringnose who was later killed in battle in central America. His maps helps give a reprieve to Captain sharp and a lesser extent later to Edward Davis. It was the intelligence from these pirates of Spanish shipping, coastal defenses that ultimately saves the life of these men being hung for pirates.

These maps are the real deal if used in conjunction with the earlier original accounts could possibly lead you to some things beyond your wildest dreams.

More to come.

Hardluck  Wink

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« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 05:40:35 am by hardluck »
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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2010, 05:50:34 am »
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 Hi All

 Very nice reading these postings, I love these old Pirate tales. Im looking forward to se some more info on this old pirate base. 5000 coin would make a nice find  Cool

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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2010, 07:10:37 am »
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Hello Goldnboy

 The history of this Island is amazing. Perhaps what is amazing those 1682 maps of Juan Fernandez are made before the Alexander Selkirk was marooned on there. And all of these documents in existence?

Alexander Selkirk (1676 ? 13 December 1721), born Alexander Selcraig, was a Scottish sailor who spent four years as a castaway when he was marooned on an uninhabited island of Juan Fernandez. It is probable that his travels provided the inspiration for Daniel Defoe's novel Robinson Crusoe.

Selkirk engaged in a buccaneer expeditions to the South Seas and in 1703 joined in with the expedition of famed privateer and explorer William Dampier. While Dampier was captain of the St. George, Selkirk served on the galley Cinque Ports, the St. George's companion, as a sailing master serving under Thomas Stradling.

In October 1704, after the ships had parted ways because of a dispute between Stradling and Dampier, the Cinque Ports was brought by Stradling to the uninhabited archipelago of Juan Fern?ndez off the coast of Chile for a mid-expedition restocking of supplies and fresh water.

Selkirk had grave concerns by this time about the seaworthiness of this vessel (indeed, the Cinque Ports later foundered, losing most of its hands). He tried to convince some of his crew mates to desert with him, remaining on the island; he was counting on an impending visit by another ship. No one else agreed to come along with him. Stradling, who was tired of Selkirk's trouble making, declared that he would grant him his wish and leave him alone on Juan Fern?ndez.

Selkirk lived the next four years and four months without any human company. All he had brought with him was a musket, gunpowder, carpenter's tools, a knife, a Bible and some clothing.

Selkirk was eventually rescued on 2 February 1709 by way of the Duke, a privateering ship piloted by the above-mentioned William Dampier. Selkirk was discovered by the Duke's captain, Woodes Rogers.

His story back in England made him a hero and It is said his life on the island alone was the inspiration of Daniel Defoe's story Robinson Crusoe.

Here is his story in his own words still in existence. See picture below. A real treasure in itself. Wink

Here is some thing else the Letter of Marque Authorizing the Cinque Ports as a Privateer.There seems from this document no indication that any secret treasure was known about by the British admiralty in regards to possible treasure being buried there by Edward Davis years earlier.

Interesting enough Alexander Selkirk in his own words mentioned the arrival of a Spanish ship on two separate occasions during his stay on the island. Were they looking for pirates or where they looking for treasure?

Perhaps there is more history to explore?

Hardluck  Wink

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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2010, 08:33:41 am »
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Very interesting Hardluck! I am often amazed at the beauty of handwriting back in the day. A lost art in our digital age.

So easy to get caught up in the moment, if I had the money I cannot say I would not be doing what Bernard is. Perhaps he might stumble onto another treasure by mistake, but to waste your life on a tropical island is hard to find too much fault with Smiley

Just examining the logistics of that much treasure.

5000 coins seems like it would be a challenge to pack around. If we take a nominal reale weight of 0.88 ozt and adjust it to pounds thats about 303 english pounds each man. Adjusting for other coins and trims from the reales lets cut it in half and it's still 150 lbs. Perhaps a manageable weight but where do you store it? Unless you are headed to shore and retiring it presents a real problem. Thats not even counting a wooden container.

300 lbs is unmanagible by one man alone without making multiple trips, even 150 is a lot of bulk to haul about. Why seperate a treasure you are just going to recombine. And here is this deserted island which everyone comes to but no one stays on. hmmm.

Perhaps a little investigating in Virginia might be called for too. Here was a little bit I found on Davis:


Captain Edward Davis. Buccaneer and pirate.

Flourished from 1683-1702. According to Esquemiling, who knew Davis personally, his name was John, but some authorities call him Edward, the name he is given in the "Dictionary of National Biography."

In 1683 Davis was quartermaster to Captain Cook when he took the ship of Captain Tristian, a French buccaneer, of Petit Guave in the West Indies. Sailed north to cruise off the coast of Virginia. From there he sailed across the Atlantic to West Africa, and at Sierra Leone came upon a Danish ship of thirty-six guns, which he attacked and took. The pirates shifted their crew into this ship, christening her the Bachelor's Delight, and sailed for Juan Fernandez in the South Pacific, arriving there in March, 1684. Here they met with Captain Brown, in the Nicholas, and together sailed to the Galapagos Islands. About this time Captain Cook died, and Davis was elected captain in his place. Cruising along the coasts of Chile and Peru, they sacked towns and captured Spanish ships. On November 3rd Davis landed, and burnt the town of Paita. Their principal plan was to waylay the Spanish Fleet on its voyage to Panama. This fleet arrived off the Bay of Panama on May 28th, 1685, but the buccaneers were beaten and were lucky to escape with their lives. At the Gulf of Ampalla, Davis had to put his sick on shore, as spotted fever raged amongst the crew. Davis then cruised for a while with the buccaneer Knight, sacking several towns.

Deciding to return to the West Indies with their plunder, several of the crew, who had lost all their share by gambling, were left, at their own request, on the Island of Juan Fernandez. Davis then sailed round the Horn, arriving safely at Jamaica with a booty of more than 50,000 pieces of eight, besides quantities of plate and jewels.

At Port Royal, after he had accepted the offer of pardon of King James II., Davis sailed to Virginia and settled down at Point Comfort. We hear no more of him for the next fourteen years, until July 24th, 1702, when he sailed from Jamaica in the Blessing (Captain Brown; twenty guns, seventy-nine men), to attack the town of Tolu on the Spanish Main, which was plundered and burnt. Davis next sailed to the Samballoes, and, guided by the Indians, who were friendly to the buccaneers, but hated the Spaniards, they attacked the gold-mines, where, in spite of most cruel tortures, they got but little gold. The crew next attacked Porto Bello, but found little worth stealing in that much harassed town.

Davis is chiefly remarkable for having commanded his gang of ruffians in the Pacific for nearly four years. To do this he must have been a man of extraordinary personality and bravery, for no other buccaneer or pirate captain ever remained in uninterrupted power for so long a while, with the exception of Captain Bartholomew Roberts.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Taken from The Pirates' Who's Who:Giving Particulars Of The Lives and Deaths Of The Pirates And Buccaneers by Philip Gosse. Originally published by Burt Franklin of 235 East 44th St., New York 10017 in 1924 and in the public domain.


So it appears Selkirk was not the first person left behind on JF. Why would a broke pirate stop pirating?  Huh?

On the maps above are the crosses indicting safe harbors? It's interesting to note that Kidds island was thought to be JF at least once.



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