[x] Welcome at THunting.com!

A fun place to talk about Metal Detecting, Treasure Hunting & Prospecting. Here you can share finds and experience with thousands of members from all over the world

Join us and Register Now - Its FREE & EASY

THunting.com
Treasure Hunting & Metal Detecting Community
   
Advanced Search
*
Welcome, Guest! Please login or register HERE - It is FREE and easy.
Only registered users can post and view images on our message boards.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
Or Login Using Social Network Account
2
News:
Pages:  1 2 3   Go Down
Print
Share this topic on FacebookShare this topic on Del.icio.usShare this topic on DiggShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on Twitter
Tags:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline hardluck
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2009, 10:54:22 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Hello Walyo

There are other things you may consider as a possibility?

No ordinary foot soldier or civilian would of been capable to write let alone write in 4 languages a complex cipher?

The Ottomans, lacking adequate regular troops because of the problems in the northwest, were compelled to use irregular Bashi-bazouks to quell the Bulgarians. (May 11-June 9, 1876) Those irregulars mostly were drawn from Muslim inhabitants of the Bulgarian regions, many of whom were Circassian refugees expelled from the Caucasus or Crimean Tatar refugees expelled during the Crimean War.

Both were either expelled by the Russians or had suffered at the rebels' hands. Making little distinction between rebels and passive peasants, bashi-bazouks, true to their reputation, brutally suppressed the revolt, massacring between 4,000 and 15,000 people in the process.

Perhaps your 4th language is from one expelled Muslims from the above?

When the Russians and Romanians invaded Bulgaria to expel the Turks Gazi Osman Pasha the Ottoman commander had better artillery but the Russians were better trained and prepared for the war. Perhaps it is worth your while to research journals of the events of that war?

It might be helpful if you can find out what high ranking officers was in Gazi Osman Pasha chief of staff?

Key to understanding it all is to know where the pot with the coins was found. That is your starting point. Know that and you will know the battle field. Study history books and you will know what Ottoman officers that were there.

As a speculation I suspect the alleged treasure is located in 4 locations not far from where the pot of coins was found? The cipher only gives the exact details of each of the four locations. Why is there four languages? As an added bit of security they used four languages in the cipher code to protect the treasure in four different locations.

As I have said the Key to it all is knowing where the pot was found.

I hope this has been of some help.

Regards Hardluck  Wink


Hello Walyo

I reasons to suspect that your friends found the alleged pot of coins somewhere near Plewna ( Pleven )

Another factor you need to be aware of is. In 1877 the Ottomans had early breach loading British artillery guns that had problems with gas escaping the explosion chamber thus reducing the efficacy of the weapon. Wax was used inside the barrels to seal the breach and to help increase barrel life in between each firing.These guns were only known to be used in Plewna and on battle of the Shipka pass.

The Ottoman forces used bees wax locally sourced in clay pots to support their artillery weapons. We know the Ottoman army had at least  12 of these artillery pieces at Pleven (Also known as Plewna ). Ghazi Osman Pasha tasked with holding back the Russian Army decided on a passive defensive measure that valiantly held up the Russians for 5 months.

These artillery guns were used around the town of Plewna. You can see for yourself a map of Russian and Turk Positions. Ultimately Ghazi Osman Pasha's defensive tactic was failure because once you are cut off from your supply lines it would be only a matter of time. Ghazi Osman Pasha's army survived 4 offensives however due to his lack of supplies he need break out of the Russian siege. He tried and it was unsuccessful and he knew his position was now hopeless.

The battle of Lovcha ( now called Lovech ) In July, 1877 shortly after the siege of Pleven began, the garrison commander Osman Pasha, received 15 battalions of reinforcements from Sofia. Osman choose to use these reinforcements to fortify Lovcha which protected the communication and supply lines running from Orchanie to Pleven.

After the failure of the first two attempts to storm the city of Pleven, the Russians brought up significant reinforcements and the investing army now totaled 100,000. Intent on cutting Osman's communications and supply lines, General Mikhail Skobelev was sent out with 20,000 Russian troops with the intention of reducing Lovcha to rubble.

On September 1 Skobelev reached Lovcha and attacked the city. Fighting continued on for the next two days. Osman marched out of Pleven to the relief of Lovcha but before he could reach to city it fell to the Russians on September 3.

Survivors of the battle withdrew into Pleven and were organized into 3 battalions. After the loss of Lovcha, these additional troops brought Osman's force up to 30,000; the highest it would get during the siege. After the fall of Lovcha, the Russians settled on the strategy of a complete iron ring blockade around Pleven, and with the loss of its major supply route the fate of Pleven was now inevitable for Ghazi Osman Pasha.

 Ghazi Osman Pasha and his cash reserves to fight war was perhaps recovered by the survivors from his reserve base at Lovcha  to his outer defenses around Pleven? Lacking paper materials with what resources around him he ordered the hastily burial of war funds in perhaps four locations. And Perhaps this explains the the clay pot with coins and a hastily written cipher in four languages on a piece of leather possibly describing four locations in and around the area fortified around the city of Pleven.

The coins with the various dates were taxed and levied from the Balkan region because at the time Turkey was in a massive recession from an extended drought that made the central administration bankrupt.

The central officer command was treated well by the Russians after Osman Pascha's surrender. However thousands perished of the regular troops when they were force marched north with no food or water in the middle of winter. Thousands more died of the wounded that were slaughtered by the Bulgarians themselves. And of course history moved on and the Ottomans never returned to Bulgaria.

Now we have a possible motive for your alleged treasure, an idea on where the pot of coins may of possibly been found. And a clue to where you might find a cipher to unlock the location details on your alleged map.

Once again I hope this will be of some help. And if you really what to find this alleged treasure you really need to research and research some more. Unless your friends are a little more forthcoming with the details, then you still have a hard search ahead of you.

Hardluck  Wink



Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg64132.html#msg64132



There are 7 attachment(s) in this post which you can not view or download

Please register for viewing them.

1877 breach loading cannon.jpg
800px-Boj_u_Ivanovo-Chiflik.jpg
800px-Russo-Turkish_War_1877-78_Turkische_Werke.jpg
800px-Zahvat_grivickogo_reduta.jpg
GhaziOsmanPasha.jpg
Kärtchen_zur_Schlacht_bei_Plewna_(11._&_12.09.1877).jpg
Siege_of_Pleven_map.jpg


Logged
Offline walyoTopic starter
Pull Tab
*

Join Date: Sep, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%

Bulgaria
Posts: 7
Referrals: 0

40.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

pulse iduction
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2009, 01:19:50 am »
Go Up Go Down

The pot was found near the village Gabrovtsi - you can find it in Google Earth-coordinates: 42'56'45-North and 25'35'50-East
The pot was found with a metal detector under a stone part of a well made by the people!
As you can see the pot was not found near Pleven, why do you think only the military personel was so wise? Many years ago the people were wise!
10 or 15 years ago, I read in a newspaper, in the center of Pleven Turkish people wanted   to find the treasure buried from Osman Pasha and they were allowed to do this, but they did not find anything!


Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg64136.html#msg64136




Logged
Offline hardluck
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2009, 01:39:46 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hello Waylo

Ultimately it is up to you what you care to reveal and find relevant. I hope this has been helpful and I wish you luck in your search.

Hardluck  Wink

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg64137.html#msg64137




Logged
Offline csharp
Bronze Member
*

Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
Australia
Posts: 212
Referrals: 0

970.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

minelab
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2010, 02:05:35 am »
Go Up Go Down

hi

i find this post very interesting.

i looked over this map you posted, first this i noted by reading your post was the age of the coin's that were recovered.

i noticed some interesting items on the map which include the following:

the script is written in an ancient language / s.

the first language i notice is Aramaic which i think originated in Syria next door to Turkey.

understanding what is in front of you is one thing deciphering it is another, looking through your image you posted i notice that it's incomplete.

at the time this note or map was written you must realize that there would be more than one language involved in writing it as follows -

Aramaic mixed with Hebrew, Nabataean, Syriac, South Arabian just to mention some of them, also ciphers such as Latin and Greek.

i better explain one imported thing before i continue - the image as posted is read from right to left ( ok for the next part ).

looking at the image as posted if you grab the top left corner and turn it counter clock wise then it starts again ( reading right to left ) i notice a couple of things here

1: second line from bottom i notice a mathematical equation it seems.
2: bottom of image i notice a Head and a Finger pointing to it's base or severed neck - this could indicate ancient ruins or a mountain that depicts a head laying down, if i look further i notice from left to right a figure of a woman ( figure in dress ) or thinking about those time a man or woman as all wore dress's this would depict ancient ruin's.

as the posted image is not completed or poor photo copied image i cannot translate it completely.

regards

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg77332.html#msg77332




Logged
Offline hardluck
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2010, 03:10:57 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hello csharp

 Welcome

Your comments of reading from right to left and reading the script by turning clock wise is a very interesting idea.

However unless Waylo comes forward with a photograph of the original document we can only speculate on the exact meaning and authenticy of the document.

I can only hope he one day comes forward with a photograph of the original document.

Some how I do not think that is going to happen.

Hardluck  Wink

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg77340.html#msg77340




Logged
Offline walyoTopic starter
Pull Tab
*

Join Date: Sep, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%

Bulgaria
Posts: 7
Referrals: 0

40.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

pulse iduction
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2010, 04:39:43 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hi,
Thanks for your reply. The document is real, not false, found in a wax ball with some golden coins. When they found the document they sent a copy to Sofia to Bulgarian scientists translators. The translators told the same you say - they said there are 4 old languages used in the document. I do not know what they translate, but said the treasure hunters that there is another one document(this is true), but the treasure founders did not gave the translators the other document, what comes to say, they did translate something!

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg77348.html#msg77348




Logged
Offline csharp
Bronze Member
*

Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
Australia
Posts: 212
Referrals: 0

970.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

minelab
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2010, 04:47:03 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hi

Hardluck - thank you for correcting me!

i wrote in my post " counter close wise " when i should of wrote " clock wise ".

yes it would be a good thing if a completed copy of the original script would be published, that way we could continue to help recover what ever it is hidden.

thanks again Hardluck

regards

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg77349.html#msg77349




Logged
Offline hardluck
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2010, 04:57:53 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hello all

csharpe it is an interesting idea you have all the same. Can you read the languages you have mentioned?

Hello Waylo welcome back I had not heard from you for awhile. Have you made any more interesting discoveries?

Did the scientists identify the languages?

Thanking you in advance.

Hardluck.  Huh?

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg77350.html#msg77350




Logged
Offline dign4it
Copper Member
*

Banned
Join Date: Mar, 2010
Thank you0

Activity
0%

United States
Posts: 83
Referrals: 0

495.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

arc-geo mini
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2010, 11:48:36 am »
Go Up Go Down

Waylo,
  Can't tell for certain, but it's possible that you have a treasure map.
  I find it interesting that you have writings on this paper that go in two different directions...the top part is written in one direction, the bottom part in a different direction.
  One of the coding/decoding techniques (if this is a treasure map) involves folding the paper at a specific spot, which will bring two separate parts of this paper together.  In other words, some types of paper treasure maps are basically two parts of a map, with each part containing its own information.  These two parts must be "brought together" in order to get the "whole map." 
  Looking at your letter, there is a short line that is located on the right hand side, this line is "in-between" the two parts of this letter.  I would try placing a straight-edge along this line and folding the paper (use a copy of the letter) and then see what happens.  You will see where letters, symbols, and words from these two parts will overlay and, if there is hidden information, it should become obvious. 
  Some paper treasure maps that use this type of decoding technique will require the paper to be folded in more than one place, with each fold giving you more information. 
  Personally, I believe that there is an owl symbol that is visible on your paper.  This alone would confirm that this letter does, indeed, lead to some sort of treasure room.  If this is true, then all you have to do is manipulate this paper in order to get to the information that will take you to the treasure room.
  There are many symbols which represent the owl, and when looking for "letter-style" treasure maps these symbols are what I look for in order to determine if this letter is more than just a letter.
  There is much more to these types of treasure maps, but you have the very basics.  Now, let's just hope that it pans out!!!
  Good luck!!!
  dign4it

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg77427.html#msg77427




Logged
Offline csharp
Bronze Member
*

Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
Australia
Posts: 212
Referrals: 0

970.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

minelab
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2010, 04:28:14 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Hi

Hardluck - ancient scripts can be translated only if they are complete, as i suspected with this script it is not complete as Walyo commented that there is a second script not yet released.

Answer to your question can i translate it to readable english form - Yes, but it will take time, but it will take even longer without the other script or maybe impossible if one script relies on the other ans visa versa.

Waylo - I would be prepared to offer help in decoding your friends script's in a confidential manner if your friends are willing. Note i am not a scientist just a person with over 4000 years of ancient blood line running through my veins. Having said that i am educated with a uni degree in computer science and a masters in automotive engineering and have a passion for anything ancient and a passion for rabbits.

let us know your / your friends thoughts, as all we are trying to do is help - as you are by posting on THunting website.

regards

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,10102.msg77486.html#msg77486




Logged
Print
Pages:  1 2 3   Go Up
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines | Sitemap
Copyright THunting.com