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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 11:55:18 am »
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The shroud was repaired after a fire in the middle ages, the cloth sample was reported accidently taken from that section so the matter is still undecided. Also a recent shall we say artist has been able to recreate the effects of the shroud using available methods so forgery is still on the table. The finding of pollens local to only the region where the crucifiction is said to have happened is also interesting. Only more study can find answers and todays more non invasive techniques would provide interesting answers I am certain. However I doubt that will ever happen again.

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Offline Luc
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« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 01:01:04 pm »
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Hey all

One link concerning "Shroud of Turin in the spring of 2010" with news and differents links

>

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Shroud of Turin


All the best

Luc

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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 01:24:54 pm »
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Thanks Luc! The shroud is making the rounds again.

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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 06:46:27 pm »
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Hello All

I was under the impression that from the work done by scientists with the sample taken from bottom lower end portion of the Turin Shroud was conclusive that it 12 century in origin. There it could have never been a impression or image of Christ or a crucified man in the first century AD.

And our scientific world claimed the shroud as a fake.

However now I  am not to sure.

An ordinary couple for the mid west united states just like you or me who had an interest in researching the subject. Researched the findings of the Scientific test conducted on the shroud. And found a fatal flaw in what part they obtained the sample.

At first the couple were treated like new age conspiracy theorist by the scientists.

The couples claims were rejected without even looking into them. However one of the original scientists in the project still had a sample left and he checked the couples claims. At first he was astounded that they had made an mistake now so obvious. He conferred with another colleague in Italy who had a sample. The sample confirmed the couples claims.

The results showed that shroud had been damaged many times over the centuries by pilgrims cuting pieces off and by a church fire.

The Area where the sample was taken on the extreme corner of the left hand bottom corner of the should was repaired in the 12th century by Flemish weavers. The weaver wove 12 century fibers into damaged part of shroud. It was only after intensive study by material and fiber experts under microscope the repair work was detected by two type of fibers interwoven exactly where the scientific took the sample 20 years ago.

This left the scientists a little embarrassed that with such a major study was fatally flawed. However scientists discovered some samples of the scrapings of the scorch marks had been stored. New technology was able to carbon date these samples and the results were near the 1st century AD.

Scientists cannot explain the reaction on how the image was made on the cloth. No one can say for definite that it is the actual image of Christ. Whoever the person was he was crucified around the 1st century AD.

I think there is many lessons to be learned here that scientific with all there technology and educated some times do not have all the answers.

Constant re-evaluation is needed in any research.

It is some thing to keep in mind in our own research projects.

Hardluck.  Huh? 

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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 08:11:48 pm »
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The trick to science is reproduction. One test is simply data, a conclusion is reached through a series of tests, and if you are worth your salt as a scientist you should understand what it is you are testing. If you get an anomalous reading figure out why instead of going for the sensationalist answer. I remember the interview with the person who did the carbon dating and he was rather pompous and egotistical. In the end it was his mistake that caused results to be skewed.

This is interesting although it still isn't proof positive of forgery in my opinion, but it does bring up some questions.

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http://www.canada.com/technology/Italian+scientist+reproduces+Shroud+Turin/2067770/story.html


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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2010, 11:43:06 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Idaho Jones
Very interesting Hardluck. Now we simply open the box take a sample and compare it with the Sudarium of Oveido and the Shroud of Turin blood. Lets have real scientists without an agenda preform the tests, ones professional enough to not rely on a single test as proof positive. Both camps have failed in that regard on multiple occasions.

The real question is which fear is stronger that it won't match or that it will?

Fascinating stuff   Smiley


It is an excellent idea you have there. Idaho Jones.

I cannot imagine the ramifications if the results were positive and matched?

Hardluck. Huh?

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Offline bigwater
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« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2010, 01:05:21 am »
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As a long time student of theology I have a hard time breaking into these sorts of threads.  I've studied the history of Jesus Christ from one end of the spectrum to the other, and cannot come up with facts one way or the other, so I'll just stay out of it other than to say that everything I've read from the rolling of the stone to the hiking across the desert is all speculation from everything I've been able to find.  It could all be true.  It could all be fake.  I've played with this stuff for 30 plus years now and still have no clue.  Figuring out the history on a person from 2000 years ago with so much mystery, myth and lore around him is damn near impossible.

My religious affiliation is neutral, so I have no particular reason to evaluate things one way or the other.  It's strictly from a theological standpoint that my interests stand. 

I hate my aunt, because she had a PhD in theology and taught me to distrust any theory on god and religion, and to research everything for myself.  It's become a lifelong obsession that is really pointless.  I won't know if there is a god or not until I die, so why should I consume even one minute worrying about it while I'm alive?  But I do... Just as my aunt did.  Pouring over the writings of man and understanding how I should live my life, how I should treat other people whether there's a heaven and hell or not.  Just like her, I feel like if there is a god, I'll be accepted into whatever heaven might be.

But I'd prefer to just be a ghost messing with the peeps living in the house I died in.  That could be fun.


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« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 01:25:51 am by bigwater »
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Offline Luc
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2010, 01:49:11 am »
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Hey all

As you know I am working on deciphering the messages of Abb? Sauni?re found by Ben Hammott in different bottles buried in the countryside around Rennes-le-Ch?teau. Out in message number 2, it is written and signed by the hand of the Father as "This simple carpenter, that Jesus Christ was a lie, the resurrection of our Lord ..." and also in the message number three "The true story of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus did not die on the cross but after 22 days. The removal of Jesus from his tomb was made by Mary Magdalene who lied about the resurrection. Dupe were men. The body of Christ, discovered by the Templars and then hidden three times .....".

On the shroud is impossible that the imprint of the crucified will be reproduced on fabric knowing that the body of the victim alive has been moved and therefore not covered as a funeral rite. For there is an impression, it takes some time for the body of acidic agents can permeate the fabric frames.

I'm sorry for not able to show you the entire text messages on Sauni?re's (these rights belong to Ben Hammott).

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« Last Edit: May 01, 2010, 03:34:05 am by Luc »
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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2010, 02:14:50 am »
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Hello All

Thank you Luc and others for making this Topic even very more interesting. Bigwater you are right there are many theories on the life of Christ and it is impossible to know what really happened 2000 years ago.

These theories are interesting but do they stand up to in depth resaerch and scrutiny? I am not particularly religious inclined. And keep my thoughts open and interested in both legends and the relationship with the established accepted doctrines.

Both of the protagonists have vested interest in their claims even if both theories are proven false they are interesting all the same.

That is what I find so interesting about this topic.

Hardluck.  Smiley

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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2010, 03:29:22 am »
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Hi

Hardluck

This post is another excellent piece of research on your part.

I also researched along this path, i was able to find in some ancient scripts something that did not make sense, for example:

There is written proof that Jesus was crucified and also Jesus body buried in a tomb.

As you have already mentioned Jesus overcome his injuries then moved to India - my research shows this.

Here is something that might disturb some faiths, Jesus is said to have lived in India to the ripe old age of 120 years.

regards

   

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