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Offline Sue
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2009, 10:37:43 pm »
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That's really cool that your mom is a hunter & collector of native artifacts - really cool. Grandmother, too. Neat finds.

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Offline tabdog
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« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2009, 01:36:01 am »
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Day Dave,

I am not a person with much native American knowledge.
But I have found a few arrow heads. I even found a Dalton
point.

8,000 to 10,000 years old,

{alt}

{alt}

It seems that the current theory is that flutted points like
the Clovis and Danton points are the result of Europeans
migrating to the Americas, probably during tha last ice age.

Something I do not hear mentioned is that mound building
started in the Americas about the same time.

Is that coincedence?

I think not.

It is believed the Stome Age even in Europe was 10,000
years ago. So not much smelting went on anywhere at that
time.

Native Americans were believed to have been in tha Stone
Age until more modern Europeans arrived in the 14th century.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

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Offline RelicRaiserTopic starter
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« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2009, 05:52:32 am »
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That makes sense, Tabdog.  I guess they didn't have the internet!!  Grin  Thank you for the info.  That sure is a beutiful find as well.  What part of the country did you find it?

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Cheers,
Dave

Offline tabdog
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« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2009, 12:23:19 pm »
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Hay Relic Hunter,

We have a small river in northern Arkansas
named tha Buffalo River. Many artifacts are
up and down that river.

I was on a plowed field along tha Buffalo
in Searcy County when I found it.

It is native stone according to the authenticator.

It was after a rain, I was just flicking flakes I
could see on tha ground when I found it.

I found it about 35 years ago.

That area is now a national Park. Hunting artifacts
there is no longer allowed.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

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Offline goldigger
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« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2009, 03:34:32 pm »
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RelicRaiser and anyone else;

Yes the native Americans used copper quite a bit (Yellowknife, NW Territories is named for a copper knife) especially around the Great Lakes, where copper occurred in largish, workable, metal-form chunks. Of course, the  alloy is like a fingerprint and it has been found to have been traded as far as Mexico.

I was recently reading about some early explorer trading for a 10 pound chunk of the Great Lakes copper.

Copper was in use as far north as the Arctic ocean.

The difference in east coast and west coast stone artifacts is not trade or even from eastern Asia, its a matter of TIME. All up the west coast, into Alaska and across the Bering are found what is called micro blades, the larger arrow, spear and knife heads really migrated, as a technology, from the east coast.

I have watched three very interesting television series on it. It seems that a number of scientists are comparing early eastern points, as well as Clovis type points, to Solutrian points, from Ice Age western Europe, about 18,000 years ago. They feel the Solutrians (who disappeared from Europe) made their way across an existing ice bridge, in the mid Atlantic, much like the Inuit existed, before the advent of European culture.

All they have, to back their theory, is some very interesting, Solutrian-like points, dug up in the east, and which are dated at about 17,000 years. Also an ancient DNA factor, only found in Europeans, today, (and amongst the Ojibway, an Algonkian group but not derived recently,) in fact the DNA eggspurts think it arrived, in America, something like 16,000 to 18,000 years. Even the Vikings werent here, that early!

They think the stone technology spread across the American continent in a very brief time, archaeologicaly speaking.

Yes, one should be able to find copper knives, adornments (I wont say jewelry,) stored material for reworking, etc. Even early European trade goods had metal, such as axe blades and should be findable.

The farther south you go, the more metal there was, in the native culture, mainly gold, which was easy to work.

I would say finding a piece or two would be great but finding multiple occurrences would mean calling in archeological experts.

Brian AKA goldigger

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Offline goldigger
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« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2009, 03:44:05 pm »
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Hey guys, the vikings had steel and bronze.... no copper, no flint. It has been determined that the stuff in Newfoundland had a bank hearth for smelting bog iron, they couldnt melt, it but got it hot enough to hammer into shape (high carbon content.)

Hot rocks??

Brian AKA goldigger

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Offline tabdog
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« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2009, 04:35:41 pm »
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Using tha term "Stone Age" can be confusing.

It does not mean there was no metal at all.

It generally is thought of as stone age then

bronze age, which required some smelting.

Using found copper in that state, does not

take the society out of tha stone age.

Also, it is thought that Eropeans came out

of tha stone before tha Americas.

So, using tha trem "stone age" can be

confusing.

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

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« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2009, 11:14:09 am »
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Hello Dave,

Here in New Mexico we have many Native American Tribes who have made there homes in the past and currently all over the State. With my metal detector I have found three metal Arrowheads and some silver beads.  They were found in different areas of the state say about 200 miles apart.  I still have to do some research on the history of the metal Arrowheads.  The beads I know for sure are from the Zuni Indians here in New Mexico. I wonder if the Arrowheads were made by the Indians or by the Spaniards and traded for other goods. Here is a pic of the arrowhead

Ironman

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Offline tabdog
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« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2009, 08:03:24 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Ironman
Hello Dave,

Here in New Mexico we have many Native American Tribes who have made there homes in the past and currently all over the State. With my metal detector I have found three metal Arrowheads and some silver beads.  They were found in different areas of the state say about 200 miles apart.  I still have to do some research on the history of the metal Arrowheads.  The beads I know for sure are from the Zuni Indians here in New Mexico. I wonder if the Arrowheads were made by the Indians or by the Spaniards and traded for other goods. Here is a pic of the arrowhead

Ironman


Wow!!!, That is an awsome find indeed.

According to Native American exsperts, other than copper, metal
arrow arrowheads were usually made by Indians from screp metal,
or small pieces sold or traded to the Indians.

Even after guns were on tha seen, Indians had a hard time getting
ammo and being able to use fire arms to hunt with.

So, from the late 1700s to the early 1800s, metal arrowheads were
common to Native Americans.

But, you know what an exspert is?

Well, an EX is a has been.

A spert is a little squirt.

So an exspert is a has been little squirt....


Tabdog

Happy Huntin,

Tabdog

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Offline Ironman
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« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2009, 11:28:02 pm »
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Thanks Tabdog!  Great information!

  Here is what I found as well:

 For those in close contact with the Spanish and the succeeding colonial settlements, metal soon replaced stone in arrowheads. Much more common in the Southwest after United States Army introduced ample raw strip metal in the barrel hoops and box bands which came along with the military supply wagons, metal arrowpoints become an increasingly common part of the archaeological record after 1600. Early metal points were made from spoon handles, knives, wagon wheel hoops, and other flat pieces of iron. By the mid-1800s, Apache, Navajo, Comanche, Ute and other mobile horse-mounted fighters were using chisels and tin snips to cut out arrowpoints to re-arm themselves during quick raids and hunting trips.

Exspert...Ha ha  that's hilarious!

Ironman

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