[x] Welcome at THunting.com!

A fun place to talk about Metal Detecting, Treasure Hunting & Prospecting. Here you can share finds and experience with thousands of members from all over the world

Join us and Register Now - Its FREE & EASY

THunting.com
Treasure Hunting & Metal Detecting Community
   
Advanced Search
*
Welcome, Guest! Please login or register HERE - It is FREE and easy.
Only registered users can post and view images on our message boards.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
Or Login Using Social Network Account
News:
Pages:  1 2 3 4 5   Go Down
Print
Share this topic on FacebookShare this topic on Del.icio.usShare this topic on DiggShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on Twitter
Tags:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline hardluckTopic starter
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« on: October 11, 2010, 05:31:34 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hello All

Ah! whats this you cry!

Hopefully with some healthy skepticism. Claiming that is almost like throwing meat to the wolves. Grin

Oak Island is one of those treasure stories that ignites fiery passions of debate.

By now we can assume the very point you are here that you have read or at least aware of the Oak island treasure story already posted many times on this website so I will need not repeat the general accepted version of the story.

There  of course are many theories alluding to Oak island. The first most logical question any inquiring mind is to ask "Is there anything there to begin with?"

This as you can imagine is not easy question to answer. GD was correct is commenting on the fact that the site is archeologically polluted.

In other words there has been over 215 years of treasure leaving and losing their items in the pit as well as the odd item added to "prove that is something there to the host of disappointing investors who have lost thousands of dollars in this quest over the years.The pit has been dug out so many times by treasure hunters, there is now some doubt where the actual location of the pit is?

But perhaps we need to look at geological structure of the island to see if the island could support the type of engineering to create the alleged treasure pit in the first place?

 Recent tests have supported earlier geological discoveries. Oak Island lies on a glacial tumulus system and is underlain by a series of water-filled anhydrite cavities, which may be responsible for the repeated flooding of the pit.

This type of limestone easily dissolves when exposed to water, forming caves and natural voids. Bedrock lies at a depth of 130?150 feet in the Money Pit area.

Upon the invitation of Boston-area businessman David Mugar, a two-week survey was conducted by the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in 1995. This is the only known scientific study that has been conducted on the site. After running dye tests in the bore hole, they concluded that the flooding was caused by a natural interaction between the island's freshwater lens and tidal pressures in the underlying geology, refuting the idea of artificially constructed flood tunnels.

But does that effectively conclude it was impossible to have dug a tunnel on the island?

Hardluck








Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg119743.html#msg119743



There are 1 attachment(s) in this post which you can not view or download

Please register for viewing them.

OAK ISLAND MONEY PIY.jpg


« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 05:38:23 am by hardluck »
Logged
Offline BitburgAggie_7377
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Platin Member
*

Define Treasure
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Join Date: Jul, 2009
Thank you116

Activity
74%

United States
Posts: 9235
Referrals: 0

26045.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Fisher Impulse , Tesoro Lobo SuperTraq, Tesoro Vaquero, Tesoro Compadre, Garrett AT Max, Whites Sierra Super Trac
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2010, 09:36:27 am »
Go Up Go Down

Quote:Posted by hardluck
But does that effectively conclude it was impossible to have dug a tunnel on the island?


I don't know.   It would seem to preclude it beyond a certain depth. 
At this point so much has happened, both documented and undocumented, that Oak Island holds the same status as Nessie and is just about as likely to be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

BA


Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg119766.html#msg119766




Logged
Offline Homefire
Global Moderator
Platin Member
*****

Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you662

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 15906
Referrals: 0

52360.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2010, 12:30:38 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Whats the deal on it?  Last I heard they found Berlap, Burnt wood and  some other goodies?

How do they known it's not just some ship Wreck from years ago?

What is the Treasure?




Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg119808.html#msg119808




Logged
Offline seldom
Wrecking Crew
Platin Member
*

Wrecking Crew
Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you19

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 7361
Referrals: 0

20755.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2010, 01:44:30 pm »
Go Up Go Down

After the Woods Hole survey most researchers believe that the wood and fiber along with dirt washed in during storms and I pretty much agree with that.
I also have a big problem with the stone table that Ranville and others puts so much faith it. It was found in the early 1900's lost found again then lost for ever around 1919 , then all of a sudden a copy of the code appears in 1970. I think not, sounds like the Kidd maps.
 Also another thing that I have thought weird is how close the beginning of the Oak Island story resembles Edgar Allen Poe's short story "The Gold Bug".
 This initial discovery and excavation was first briefly mentioned in print in the Liverpool Transcript in October, 1856. A more complete account followed in the Liverpool Transcript, the Novascotian, British Colonist,[8] and A History Of Lunenburg County (the latter source based on the Liverpool Transcript articles). So 20 years after Poes short was published the OI story shows up.
  So are we to say that 200 years and millions of dollars plus 6 lives have been lost in search of seawater, limestone and broken dreams.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg119830.html#msg119830




« Last Edit: October 11, 2010, 02:09:50 pm by seldom »
Logged

If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Offline Idaho Jones
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Apr, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 1560
Referrals: 0

7930.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2010, 04:52:50 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Oak Island is truly a poster child for why treasure hunting is bad for you  Wink

One of the biggest issues with the whole story is that even the original diggers had no idea if there was any treasure there. 3 kids on a treasure hunt.

How or why would anyone dig 150+ feet straight down to hide something, let alone place oak floor every 10 feet and cover stones? If you bury it that deep you aren't planning to ever get it back most likely. Perhaps it was the Jumanji box or something?

The water trap was what made Oak Island special to me, if someone went to that much trouble there had to be something there right? The amazing engineering feat which elevated it to almost great pyramid status on the how'd they do it scale. If you look closely at the real area as opposed to the neatly drawn diagram though you see it looks much different and far less sinister.

But what of the chain and parchment that were found in the core drilling? What of the video footage in the cavern?

As Seldom mentioned the stone that was found, then lost, then found, then transcribed to say there's treasure just keep digging a bit farther....

Oak Island today seems to be a series of misconceptions and questionable evidence. Whatever clues were there (if any) have been obscured by fund raising and publicity tactics it seems. No one can tell if any of the story is really true or just legend anymore.

Still that video evidence from the cavern below is tantalizing, even after all that has gone before. I'll watch and wait like I have for years, but I'll leave the monetary contributions to someone else.   Wink

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg119858.html#msg119858




Logged
Offline seldom
Wrecking Crew
Platin Member
*

Wrecking Crew
Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you19

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 7361
Referrals: 0

20755.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2010, 05:21:42 pm »
Go Up Go Down

But what of the chain and parchment that were found in the core drilling? What of the video footage in the cavern?

Jones this hole is so screwed up the stuff could have came from anywhere. No one even knows where the original hole was/is.

As for the video I have not seen it but have talked to several that have and their opinion is that its just wishful thinking. The only people who see a hand and chest are the ones who took the video in 1971. 

How or why would anyone dig 150+ feet straight down to hide something,

Don't we see this everyday from our friends in the Philippines?? Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg119865.html#msg119865




Logged

If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Offline Idaho Jones
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Apr, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 1560
Referrals: 0

7930.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2010, 05:30:45 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Well yes but the Yamashita's used uranium reinforced concrete instead of oak logs every 10 feet!  Grin

"Jones this hole is so screwed up the stuff could have came from anywhere. No one even knows where the original hole was/is"

Agreed, could have been salted, and most likely was.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg119869.html#msg119869




Logged
Offline BitburgAggie_7377
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Platin Member
*

Define Treasure
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Join Date: Jul, 2009
Thank you116

Activity
74%

United States
Posts: 9235
Referrals: 0

26045.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Fisher Impulse , Tesoro Lobo SuperTraq, Tesoro Vaquero, Tesoro Compadre, Garrett AT Max, Whites Sierra Super Trac
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2010, 05:40:06 pm »
Go Up Go Down

It's even possible that it wasn't salted (i.e. artifacts deliberately introduced)---it's possible that a lot of material that is seen was accidentally introduced (lost) during previous attempts.   Either way, it's a major cluster f----anyone who can keep what's what straight needs to teach lessons to the rest of us.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg119870.html#msg119870




Logged
Offline hardluckTopic starter
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2010, 05:46:22 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hello All

I think you all knew What I was going to say about Oak Island and its issues. Grin

You have all made interesting comments.

Seldom: I also have a issue with the so called stone that was allegedly discovered in 1805 when Anthony Vaughan was looking for backers. Strange don't you think?

And John Smith must of be the dumbest treasure hunter in history to used the alleged ciphers stone as part of his fireplace?

You can see in following three examples of the alleged cipher message. We have Mr Ranville claiming he has deciphered it from the above copy that does not match earlier drawing of what was on the stone?

The question springs to mind was there any stone to start with?

The Following comments are from a historical researcher in Canada.

The Inscribed Stone

     
The time line for the money pit?s inscribed stone has never been completely identified in any single book.  You might be surprised to learn of some details, especially of quickly unfolding series of suspicious events which happened during the 1860s.

The implied historic time line which takes us to 1864 is the following:
A stone is found at the 80 ft level.  Specific year and by whom is unknown; however is thought to be in 1805 by the Onslow Company. (Ref Halifax Sun and Advisor dated 2 July 1862)

John Smith comes to possess the stone, specific year is unknown.  (Ref: PANS microfiche 10599)

John Smith places the stone in an outside course in the back part of his fireplace during the building his new home in 1810. (Ref PANS microfiche 10599)

John Smith supposedly tells George Cooke of the stone and where it is located during 1849. (Ref: PANS microfiche 10599)

John Smith dies in Aug 1857. (PANS MG 100 Volume 230 #32-32E microfiche 9809 - Descendants of the Smith and Floyd Families)
 
After John?s passing, the property and house falls into the possession of Anthony Graves, but is used as a treasure hunting headquarters by the Truro Group, then by the Oak Island Association.  Neither Anthony Graves nor anyone except for George Cooke, knows of the stone?s location. (ref PANS microfiche  10599)
 
THE RECORD of EVENTS:
Liverpool Transcript 1857
    does not mention the inscribed stone.
 
Liverpool  Transcript Sep 1861   
    ?The digger, Patrick? letter does not mention the inscribed stone, but does describe in detail the Onslow work, specifically them sinking a crowbar at 93ft into a wooden platform.  Patrick self proclaims himself as ?one who knows?.
 
Liverpool Transcript Aug 1861 
    does not mention the stone.
 
Nova Scotian 20 Sep 1861 
    does not mention the stone.
 
Liverpool Transcript Dec 1861 
    does not mention the inscribed stone.   
 
Halifax Sun and Advisor dated 2 July 1862 
This paper contains the first mention of the inscribed stone. The author was J.B. McCully who drafted the letter on 2 June 1862. While offering information which described conditions as supposedly found during the 1805 excavation, McCully mentions the following:
?Some of them [layers] were charcoal, some putty, and one at 80 feet was a stone cut square, two feet long and about a foot thick, with several characters cut on it?.
No further details are provided other than this fleeting mention.

This above disclosure by McCully does not appear to have gained any interest.


Rambles Among the Blue noses Aug 1862 by Andrew Spedon   McCully is interviewed by Andrew Spedon for his book,. McCully does not mention the stone to Spedon.

Halifax Colonist 2 Jan 1864 
Additional details of the stone are revealed through an anonymous letter detailing the history of the treasure hunt. The letter is signed by ?A Member, Truro Dec 20th 1863?. Research comparing the manuscript letter against a subsequent letter by George Cooke, Secretary of the Oak Island Association, found a positive match in hand writing style. George Cooke says he personally spoke with Smith about 14 years early, thus 1849 (Ref: PANS microfiche 10599).

The only additional information contained in this article is the following:
?As it was preserved in the family of Mr. Smith it may be seen by the curious at the present day.?
 
A letter from John Hunter Duvar, Secretary to the Historical Society of Nova Scotia, to George Cook - 2 Jan 1864 
    John knows that George is the anonymous author and asks ?May I beg, in the name of the Society, to be informed with the name of the person in whose possession this stone is??
 
A letter by George Cooke to John Hunter-Duvar, replying to the letter of 2 Jan 1864, dated 27 Jan 1864
?Our making inquiries since receipt of your letter, I find that the chimney has been boxed around by a wooden partition, and that a flight of stairs back up near where the stone is inserted. I was not aware of this before. This may prevent the stone being got at without trouble?

George also discusses deciphering the stone and it is very important to the Oak Island Association. George concluded the letter with the following:

?At the time I saw the stone, I noticed that there were some rudely cut letters, figures, or characters upon it. I cannot recollect which, but they appear as if they had been scraped out by a blunt instrument rather than cut by a sharp one.?
George also provides testimony from John Smith about the stone's discovery. Smith merely saw the stone come from below ground with Smith implying he was not present below ground on that day.
After the date from the above letter, the exact chain of custody for this inscribed stone is clouded.


James DeMille's "Treasure of the Sea? 1872 
DeMille is a summer resident of Chester Basin during the later 1860s, he lived on Oak Island for a summer, and possessed firsthand knowledge of the underground workings through his own observations.  (In October, 1865, James DeMille, M.A. was added to replace McCulloch who had died in March, 1865, and James Leichti was added as tutor in Modern Languages. DeMille remained until his death in 1880 and Leichti until 1901 [Ref:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://earthsciences.dal.ca/aboutus/otr/otr-ch02.html
]

James Leichti is thought to have (at some point) translated the stone which read: "Ten feet below are two million pounds buried."

DeMille was kind enough to note the stone was already removed from the fireplace when he arrived on the island. DeMille also mentioned that up until this point, no person was able to decode the stone. Considering DeMille?s interest in the island, and for DeMille to have been Leichti?s boss at Dalhousie University, DeMille ought to have known if Leichti translated the stone prior to 1872.


Undated letter by William Blair (private collection)
?Jefferson W. McDonald, who first mentioned Oak Island to me in 1893, worked there under George Mitchell?.Mr. McDonald, who was a carpenter by trade, also told of taking down a partition in Smith?s house, in order that he with others might examine the characters cut on the stone used in the jamb of a fire place in the house. The characters were there all right, but no person present could decipher them.?

George Mitchell was the superintendant of works for the Oak Island Association, formed 3 April 1861 and ceased before 29 March 1865. RV Harris wrote ?About 1865-1866 the stone was removed and taken to Halifax. Among those who worked to remove the stone was one Jefferson W. MacDonald.?
 
1894 Prospectus ? Oak Island Treasure Company 
This is the first instance in print to mention a translation of the stone. It implies for someone (an expert) of Halifax made the translation.

?Afterwards, it was placed in the jamb of a fireplace that Mr. Smith was building in his house, and while there was viewed by thousands of people. Many years afterwards, it was taken out of the chimney and taken to Halifax to have, if possible, the characters deciphered".

One of the experts gave his reading of the inscription as follows: "Ten feet below are two million pounds buried." We give this statement for what it is worth, but by no means claim that this is the correct interpretation. Apart from this, however, the fact remains that the history and description of the stone as above given have never been disputed.?
 
The Oak Island Treasure CHARLES B. DRISCOLL, (1929:Jan./June) p.685   
?The stone was shown to everyone who visited the island in those days. Smith built this stone into his fireplace, with the strange characters outermost, so that visitors might see and admire it. Many years after his death, the stone was removed from the fireplace and taken to Halifax, where local savants were unable to translate the inscription. It was then taken to the home of J.B. McCulley in Truro, where it was exhibited to hundreds of friends of the McCulleys, who became interested in a later treasure company.

 Somehow the stone fell into the hands of a book binder, who used it as a base upon which to beat leather for many years. A generation later, with the inscription nearly worn away, the stone found its way to a book store in Halifax, and what happened to it after that I was unable to learn.?
 
27th March 1935 Letter of Harry W Marshall to Fred Blair and RV Harris 
The stone was on display until 1919 in the store of Creighton and Marshall, which his father was a partner. Harry says one of the Creightons who was interest in the Oak Island Treasure Company brought the stone to Halifax, but no characters could be seen except for the initials JM which were carved into the stone in more recent times. Considering the Oak Island Treasure Company was in existence from 1893 to 1899, this can only mean a Creighton brought the stone to Halifax between 1893 and 1899. 
 
The trail of the stone goes silent after 1919.

Conclusions

Early details about the stone are weak.

McCully?s failure to mention the stone to Andrew Spedon is most suspicious. The stone would have been the only tangible evidence to the early story. This lack of inclusion to Andrew Spedon defies logic, especially considering McCully mentioned the stone in the newspaper only one month earlier.

Perhaps McCully did not know where the stone was located which is consistent, or had reservation in showing the stone?

At some point between 1849 and the death of Smith in 1857, George Cooke observed the stone and found characters. Between the time of George Cooke viewing the stone and replying to John Hunter-Duvar in Jan 1864, someone supposedly build a wooden partition which hid the stone.

John Hunter-Duvar, the Secretary for the Historical Society of NS never does see the stone, and never does obtain a rubbing. If so, it would have been included in a period publication of the society or would have made it into his own book, The Stone, Bronze and Iron Ages. (1892, London: Swan Sonnenschein & Co.) Chapter 12, - Explorations in North America.

Upon George Cooke disclosing the location of the stone in Jan 1864, it is quickly removed from the fireplace prior to the closing of the Oak Island Association.

We can gather by the dates, and folding of the Oak Island Association, for the stone to have been removed very close to the end of the company and very near to when its location was disclosed by George Cooke. If they knew about the location prior to the disclosure by George Cooke, then why did Jefferson MacDonald and company wait to remove the partition to view it?

While George Cooke says he saw characters and supposedly other folks in Halifax and Truro saw characters, by the time the stone arrives in Halifax for a second time, no characters are observed on the stone.

The stone had not yet been translated by 1872. This would be consistent for the information by Driscoll. The stone came to Halifax, then went to Truro, then in or after 1893 (a stone) made its way back to Halifax.

Did J.B McCully switch the stones, even perhaps selling a fake to the new Oak Island Treasure Company?


So what do we have a translation of an alleged stone with cipher on it that has been missing form 1919 and no clear evidence it was ever recovered from the pit?

And undisputed translation of the alleged cipher that never seems to be same every time the cipher is illustrated?

Hardly constitutes evidence of treasure?

Hardluck



Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg119959.html#msg119959



There are 3 attachment(s) in this post which you can not view or download

Please register for viewing them.

ALLEGED INSCRIBED STONE OAK ISLAND.jpg
cypher text version mapfull.jpg
cypher text version oak_island_map.jpg


Logged
Offline seldom
Wrecking Crew
Platin Member
*

Wrecking Crew
Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you19

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 7361
Referrals: 0

20755.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2010, 11:26:23 am »
Go Up Go Down

The question springs to mind was there any stone to start with?

Personally I don't think there was a stone. Like the other artifacts plants to raise interest in investments.

Like I said in the other thread who starts a treasure recovery without knowledge of a treasure being buried. There are no legends documents diary's nothing before 1860 in print about any treasure on OK.

There are 2 accounts of what McGinnis found 1 a tree with a sawed off branch over a depression in the ground 2  a tree with a sawed off branch over a depression in the ground  with a block and tackle in place.
OK who would spend the money and man power to dig said pit and bury a treasure and leave something like that pointing to it. Dead give away.

Has anyone researched to see how many if any of these people are real did McGinnis really live there in 1795 Where is Jones he is good at that kind of research?

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,18450.msg120016.html#msg120016




Logged

If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Print
Pages:  1 2 3 4 5   Go Up
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines | Sitemap
Copyright THunting.com