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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2010, 11:54:08 am »
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Nice overview Hardluck!

I'm pretty well convinced that this treasure legend sprang partly from the imagination of the original diggers fed by a series of obsessed treasure hunters working on assumptions. Like Seldom and others have pointed out there is no treasure evidence or story besides an alleged depression and a tree/block and tackle. It sure had a good run though Smiley I'm amazed at the tenacity to dig so deep with no real result.

Very true BA, it could easily have been contamination by the diggers as opposed to a true attempt at fraud as far as the evidence. Gold chain from a pocket watch, parchment from a market list?
The stone I personally believe was a total scam though.

I'll do a little digging Seldom, but thats a remote place from a time when records were scarce. Who knows though. Smiley
 

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Offline seldom
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2010, 12:08:19 pm »
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I'll do a little digging Seldom, but thats a remote place from a time when records were scarce. Who knows though. Smiley

Yeah that's what I am thinking.

Keep your eye open for any mention of Edgar Allen Poe's short story "The Gold Bug". There is something there I just can't put my finger on it.

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If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2010, 12:12:59 pm »
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It's quite probable it could have influenced the story by someone embellishing during a retelling of the Oak Island tale. Why come up with a treasure tale when someone else already has?  Wink

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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2010, 12:23:06 pm »
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Thats my thinking Jones, going to reread the Gold Bug Now its been some years.

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If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2010, 04:29:25 pm »
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Searching for Daniel McGinnis is almost as bad as John Smith  Grin

Anthony Vaughn turned up in the time frame though hard to say if it's the same Anthony Vaughn  Sad

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http://www.johncardinal.com/millet/alexa010.htm


10. Mary10 Millet (George9, Nathaniel8, Nathaniel7, Thomas6, Nathaniel5, Thomas4, John3, William2, John1) was born on 20 Dec 1775 at Chester, Lunenburg County, Nova Scotia.48,45 Mary married James Jackson Vaughan, son of Anthony Vaughan and Anne Armstrong. Mary, age 28 married George Bezanson, age 23, son of Jean Jacques Jacob Bezanson and Anna Maria Ley, on 10 Jun 1804 at Chester, Nova Scotia; the ceremony was performed by Rev. Dimock.49,50 She died in 1844.51

n.Jacob Vaughan
b.Chester, Lunenburg co, NS, Feb 7,1815
p.Anthony Vaughan and Elizabeth Nelson

n. Eleanor Connor Vaughan
b.West Chester, Lunenburg co, NS, March 29,1819
p.Anthony Vaughan and Elizabeth Nelson

sp.James S. Murphy
b.1826
p.Edward Murphy and Rebecca Nelson

children

Nelson abt 1841
Ada...abt 1843


Posted on: October 12, 2010, 03:55:14 PM
If you wish to look for Mr Smith here are a few possibilities:

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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~downeast/schmidt.html


Posted on: October 12, 2010, 04:03:37 PM
Here is an interesting page about Smith, Vaughn, and McInnis AKA Donald Daniel McInnis (not McGinnis)

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http://www.oakislandtreasure.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1429


MacInnis shows up as well as McGinnis and a few other variations.

So looks like these folks did live in the area during the time and were involved with the island.

This book might be good to check into if you want to dig farther:

Western Shore, Gold River and Martins Point
Willa J. Kaizer
The Anundsen Publishing Company, Decorah, Iowa
History of the Western Shore area of Lunenburg County, including cemeteries, industry, and more. Genealogical section on the following families of that area: Adams-Fredericks, Barkhouse, Boehner, Boutilier, Cleveland, DeLorey, Demon, Dorey, Hamm, Hatt, Hiltz, Joudrey, Kaizer, Keddy, Hirtle, McGinnis, Mosher, Myra, Rafuse, Richardson, Sawler, Shupe, Swinemar, Vaughan, Young and Zwicker.

And yet another interesting site about McInnes family graves:

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http://www.chesterbound.com/Oak%20Island/graves.htm





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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2010, 05:06:11 pm »
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Hello All

Thank you all for the interesting comments.

The very story of it origins is in doubt. Firstly the island was not a isolated mysterious Abandoned uninhabited island as the tradition story makes out.

Oak Island was owned by John Gifford and Richard Smith, two fishing agents from New York, were granted island in Mahone Bay on 27th December 1753 by Governor Charles Lawrence . This date was prior to many of the islands being named and even pre-dates the once used numbering scheme.

Subsequent documents show they possessed islands 12, 13, and 28 (modern day Oak Island).

Island 28 was renamed to Smiths Island and is shown with this name on a 1761 map of Mahone Bay. Some British naval maps named the island Gloucester island.

They remained in possession of Oak Island, modern day Youngs Island, and Gifford Island, which still bears the name from John Gifford.
 
The island passed into control of the Shoreham grantees at some point between 1760 and 1764; then was renamed to Oak Island.

The island was subdivided into lots and sold off from 1764. hardly a remote spot to bury treasure?


Another thing the date of the alleged discovery is also in question?

The various accounts of the 19th Century never mention three boys, with only Blair?s Prospectus mentioning 1795 as a date to discovery.

Other than 1795 being the year in which Smith bought the property, there is nothing else to suggest 1795 as the year to discovery.  DeMille indicates ?the son? got married and then communicated information about the pit.

If this son was Nathaniel Melvin, he married in 1795. All of the texts, except for Blair?s, suggests the pit was discovered, or at minimum became known to the Loyalist group before 1789.

All of the three friend versions, except for Judge DesBrisay?s, are all based upon the Anthony Vaughan Jr. to Creelman exchange of information.

It interesting to note there was several people living on the island in 1795. And Anthony Vaughan Jr was born in 1782 there was no way could of been involved in the alleged 1795 discovery. Yet he was the principle source of the story?

Simply put 16 year old Danial McGinnis never rowed over to this mysterious island because he lived there. He lived with his stepfather and mother and several of his brothers and sisters are buried on the island. Smith to is recorded at one time living on the island.

So we have a story related by a person who was 5 year old at the time of the alleged discovery who did not now the island was inhabited, McGinnis and Smith was already living there by 1795 as well as other families living on one of the thirty odd lots the island was subdivided in since 1764.

Hardly the discovery the treasure legend tells us today?

Hardluck
 





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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 05:25:45 pm »
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Yup Hardluck, a twisted mess isn't it? I think there is more hearsay than fact floating around this story. Maybe it was remote in 1699 when Captain Kidd dug a 200 foot hole to bury his massive treasure...... Still after all the rocks and timbers and cryptograms no one has clue one what if anything might have been there. If there was a block and tackle on a limb or if there was even a tree limb at all.

Seldom,

On the Gold Bug. Poe publishes it in 1856 a year before the stone resurfaces. Gold Bug features a cryptogram just like the stone. If the 1805 stone was real it probably looked nothing like the 1857 version I bet   Wink

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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2010, 06:01:33 pm »
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Hello all

Well done with the research Idaho Jones

Idaho Jones I agree, it is better to keep that wallet in the ass pocket of my pants on this one.  Grin

Oak island is not the project to waste money or waste a lifetime on. The gold bug has a strong power over some people.

However it is interesting to see how the legend evolved with mistake after mistake for over 200 years.

Even the claims on the Coconut fiber is in dispute.

So what do we have?

We have and island in a region with geological sinkholes.

A discovery that never happened as told by a man who was too young to even been there on island inhabited by nearly hundred people living on about thirty lots since 1764.

A alleged discovered stone that has mysterious disappeared in 1919 with a cipher that is different every time it is shown. That some one alleged to have translated.

A various array of alleged finds all out of archeological context with no proof on how or if they were even found in the pit.

A pit that has been dug out so many times no one is sure that they are digging in the right spot.

For a treasure that no one knows who put it there or even if it exists at all?

Hardluck

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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 06:06:19 pm »
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On the Gold Bug. Poe publishes it in 1856 a year before the stone resurfaces. Gold Bug features a cryptogram just like the stone. If the 1805 stone was real it probably looked nothing like the 1857 version I bet   Wink

I am having a problem with both and also the 1970 copy The stone is the first thing that I consider bogus.

The Gold Bug was published in several weekly's in 1843 which was around 20 years before the OI story started to appear.

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Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2010, 06:29:46 pm »
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Hello Seldom

Its been a very long time that I read Poe's story. It is very possible the whole oak island story was created Anthony Vaughan and others who was in turn inspired by Poe's work.

Hardluck

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