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Offline nickel_n
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2017, 05:18:34 pm »
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look at Nexus detectors.
i personally never used one,but i hear about impressive depth tests done with them.
i am looking for the link to them but i cant locate at the moment.
here is a link to their website giving some info about the different type of detectors/principals

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http://www.nexusdetectors.com/sciencemetaldetectors.html

 well here it is.i found it

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http://www.garysdetecting.co.uk/hoard_test.htm.

read the article to the END for the conclusion Shocked

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« Last Edit: April 08, 2017, 05:31:37 pm by nickel_n »
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2017, 07:27:34 pm »
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That Garrett with the multi are not good machines, In Clay you need a PI machine like the Whites TDI or TDI Pro or the TDI SL with a 14" Mono Coil fitted or if money is no object the a Minelab PI, The Whites MXT with a 14 or 15" Concentric or DD Coil might work Or a Whites DFX, or XLT with a Big Coil fitted even a V3i with similar Coils.

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2017, 12:01:44 pm »
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Let's think about this logically and from an electronics reference point.

1. The soil is not a conductor. When dry, it will allow fields to pass through it but trying to "energize" that soil will absolutely fail. When moist, id does conduct in a limited fashion but it also absorbs what you are calling EMF. It does not get energized by it. When saturated, soil is not a good conductor at all. It completely absorbs all EMF and as detectorists will tell you, even detection is hit or miss depending on the saturation level and your machine's ability to balance the soil conditions.

2. Those machines which DO work are the pipe and wire followers. Why? Because they use the buried pipes and wires as antennae by placing the broad spectrum EMF on the metal itself and use a radio receiver to trace the underground pipe or cable. So, if you can somehow connect a wire to your gold, you can find it that way.  Wink

3. You mentioned dowsing in your initial question. There is absolutely no predicable science when it comes to that. A dowser either has the skill or not. There is nothing anyone elxe can say about that ability since it is not measurable. I do not disbelieve in dowsing at all but do disbelieve that it can be taught or enhanced electronically.

4. In almost every home around this wonderful earth of ours, the soil is used as an "earthing" or grounding for delivered electricity. Note that the recommending ground rod is 15 feet or around 4 meters in length. This is go get it as much area exposed to soil as possible and to get it near to the average water table. The earth itself is a virtually limitless supply of electrons and the positive component of an AC signal can be shunted to ground or earth in a short circuit. Confusing? Imagine what Mr Lightning has to go through to make those giant sparks.

5. Metal in the ground reacts with the soil in different ways. Some reactions enhance your ability to find it while others do not. Your target is alleged to be in glass jars meaning that it is isolated from the soil. Isolated. That bears repeating. That means the even if you COULD energize the soil in some way, your gold will remain untouched by the field.

All that being said, from first hand experience, I can tell you how I located more than one cache of coins in Mason jars. I was going to have a laugh and say I'd tell you tomorrow, but here is the real secret.

Assuming you know the approximate location, set your machine to the All Metal mode. If you have ground balance either turn it off if you can or set it to minimum. Then tune your machine with your coil actually touching the ground. I mean physically touching it. When you lift it, it will respond. That means you got it right. Then, slowly glide your coil over the suspect area. Your scan will be as deep as possible with your machine and will produce lots and lots of responses. This is where hard work and backbone come in. You have to dig all responses to the point where you remove all metal that may be masking your gold. This is important. Once I uncovered a cache that was quite well hidden by debris. There were holes all over the place and discarded "finds" everywhere. I patiently dug each of them and eventually found my target right where I thought it was. Not enough to retire on but rewarding.

A couple of other tips here. When you find what you think is the right target, tilt your coil a tiny amount leaving one side touching the soil. Scan the area again and see of your target is now not found. If so, you got it. Deep targets become invisible when you tilt the coil while shallow ones are most likely enhanced by this.

The process of touching the ground while detecting is called scrubbing. Not recommended for regular detecting but very helpful for deep targets. Scrubbing with a coil cover on defeats the purpose. If you really must have protection on your coil (for the OCD among us) get some tool dip and paint your coil with it. Available at most hardware stores. On the other hand, you won't be doing this every day so just allow the little bit of scratching. If you happen to be lucky enough to find a cache every day, buy a few extra coils and give yourself a fist pump.

Good luck.

Posted on: April 09, 2017, 10:37:27 am
I didn't mean for my post to shut down discussion. In fact, I hoped it would garner some questions. Experimentation may result in success perhaps in a presently unknown way.

I was pointing out the difficulties that must be overcome. I didn't say they couldn't be overcome.


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« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 12:05:02 pm by GoldDigger1950 »
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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2017, 01:16:05 pm »
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  Guess he's digesting. 

HF

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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2017, 01:51:09 pm »
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I presume you're suggesting I "scrub" with a PI detector? I hope the post didn't shut down. In fact, I thought I'd replied but I guess it didn't post it right. So, based on everyone's feedback it seems that...

A) A 2-box detector is really on good for larger targets. My question, what if we're talking a gallon of gold coins 3ft deep? Would that be big enough?

B) The Makro detectors are VLF detectors, and therefore the idea of them having the depth they boast of is highly suspect.

C) A PI detector, although lacking discrimination, has greater depth and would work better in clay soil. My question pertains to depth... How deep do the Whites TDI SL and similar PI models go?

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. 

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« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2017, 02:05:30 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Bawilliams78
I presume you're suggesting I "scrub" with a PI detector? I hope the post didn't shut down. In fact, I thought I'd replied but I guess it didn't post it right. So, based on everyone's feedback it seems that...

A) A 2-box detector is really on good for larger targets. My question, what if we're talking a gallon of gold coins 3ft deep? Would that be big enough?

B) The Makro detectors are VLF detectors, and therefore the idea of them having the depth they boast of is highly suspect.

C) A PI detector, although lacking discrimination, has greater depth and would work better in clay soil. My question pertains to depth... How deep do the Whites TDI SL and similar PI models go?

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone.  


Regardless off your soil/clay If the target is big enough even a VLF will go over 3 feet deep,  With the TDI SL I found a subway tunnel at over 6 feet deep because it was such a large Item, The Whites MXT will go down to 3 to 5 feet depending on the Coil used, with the 15" MXT Max Coil I have Air tested it to between 8 and 10 feet pending on the targets, But such depths are unrealistic on buried Items. where 2 to 4 feet would be more realistic,

Your problems start not with the machine or the ground, They start with the target because you don't know how big it is or what it is made of so first you need a powerful VLF like the MXT and if that don't work then get a TDI with one of Miner Johns 14"+ coils and go over it with that and if that don't work then get a Whites TM-808 Two Box Locator,

Hope this helps.


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« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 02:19:55 pm by Ridge Runner »
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« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2017, 02:38:28 pm »
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You can use the scrubbing technique with just about any detector except for the ancient BFO machines. Too touchy.

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It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.
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« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2017, 03:54:02 pm »
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Finding our test target would be a nice start. I know it is a combination of silver coins, copper pennies, silver and gold plated jewelry in a jar similar to the one in the link below. We buried 3ft deep 12 years ago.

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https://www.pinterest.com/pin/545005992391952657/


The actual target(s) we're looking consist of pre-1900 gold coins in large 2-gallon stoneware jars (similar to the one pictured). It was buried by my great, great grandfather; however, he had a stroke and died before he could reveal the location to his son, my great grand father. My great, great grandfather was concerned that if he left the money to his wife, her brothers would beat her out of it. My great aunt and uncle were eye witnesses that the money actually existed. My great grandfather searched the area with mule and plow, but with a family to feed, he couldn't dig up every inch of the farm and he ended up dying an old poor man. Different relatives have searched for it and never found it. My great, great grand father even relayed how much he buried and how he buried it. We've used a Garret CS with the regular coil and the depth multiplier, but it can't even find our test target.

With a diameter of 5in and a height of 12in, buried 3ft deep, would a 2-box detector, the TM 808 find it. Homefire I believe it was said the TM 808 is no better than the Garrett with the Depth Multiplier attachment. A PI detector and the TM 808 are comparable in price, but I want to make sure that what we buy is capable of doing the job.


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« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2017, 04:14:34 pm »
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The Garrett with or without the multi is not a good machine and lacks depth the TM-808 will go very deep indeed, and if it is that Deep then you need either a PI or the 808, so that is where I would start, and forget the Garrett models are not like the 80/90s Garrett's the 1500 and the 2500 are not know for their Depth, the screen on them is BS and their ACE 250 and their AT Pro's are better machines, but the MXTs are the preferred weapon of Choice for the US Civil War relic Hunters and there are over 50 Coils made for them and that is what I would use and if that don't work try the other 2 machines,

Although you might think that is the expensive route it is peanuts when you compare it to the value of the Items you could find, So you need to make a choice you either don't buy them and find nothing or you invest in those machines and strike it rich,  If this hobby was easy then we would all buy one machine and retire Rich but it is not that easy, there is no easy way around this, most folks here own at leased 3 detectors because no machine can do it all, Personally I find the MXT's with a good choice of Coils will do about 98% of my detecting needs and I also have a TDI SL, along with a few others,

Hope that helps.

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« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2017, 04:33:12 pm »
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That is a big help. We've not got much experience outside of searching our little plot for this lost inheritance. It's great to discover a community of people who do this and aren't interested in making sales pitches for products. You search the manufacturer websites and you hear all sorts of glass-half-full stories. I'll pass the word along and maybe we'll just go in deep and purchase two detectors--the TM 808 and a variety of PI detector. Is there a reason one would prefer the TDI SL over the MXT? Are the coils interchangeable for the MXT and TDI?

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