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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2012, 06:28:29 pm »
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Here is a link to a translated reprint of the Roger Crouquet artical (I believe). It is interesting that it seems to impress the point that Rennes will soon disappear as people are leaving for other places, and promotes tourists to seek it out. 

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http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.renneslechateau.it%2Fblog.php%3Fpost%3Dblog%2F20101022&lp=it_en&.intl=us&fr=yfp-t-701


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Offline Luc
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2012, 02:08:23 am »
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Hello all

Please find the attachached files concerning the Engraved Stones of the Languedoc by Eugene Stublein and Trip of society's scientic aude (1905)

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http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile;id=292


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Sorry for no comments My time go to fast

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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 06:52:27 am »
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Hello Idaho Jones

The story is in muddy waters indeed. No need for apologies as I tend to concur with you. I cannot find either any reference to this alleged book prior to around 1963.

And that is one of problems of the Rennie's Le chateau legends so many unsubstantiated claims.

Hardluck

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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2012, 06:34:33 pm »
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Thanks for the links Luc! Smiley I totally understand about the lack of time.

Since the purpose of this thread was to get past the yama syndrome, and it looks like the inscriptions on the tombstone were of later creation I thought I would look at some other things (until the book shows up). Here are a few things that caught my eye as odd. 

So 1936 is when the existance of the treasure legend comes to light "officially" for the first time from Dr Jean Girou? Well before the P of S docs which I am going to ignore since they are highly suspect. Based allegedly upon rumors from townsfolk, incidently many of whom probably lived through the time of Sauniere's residence. 

The Testimony of René Espeut of searches in 1925 to 1931 approx. While I can't dispute that his testimony may not be correct, I also have to note that he was not an eye witness to events. The fact he could find no evidence of treasure in his searches does not equal disproof of such. We have no gauge to measure his understanding of the material he read, or the tenacity of his search. Sauniere admitted to selling antiquities as part of his funds and at least once documented finding a tomb. 

The fact that Marie Dénarnaud was living in poverty in 1925 could mean any number of things. That Sauniere found treasure spent it all and died broke, that he was a conman and died broke, that he didn't trust anyone with the treasure, you can make all kinds of scenarios. We aren't even 100% sure of the relationship between them. It's all based off hearsay just like the treasure story. My question also would be why look for 6 years if there was nothing at all?

Where did the money come from? I have read numerous charges leveled by the church of masses being sold through magazines and papers. What troubles me is that none of these are said to exist. It's theorized that they were all used to start fires or otherwise destroyed, yet we have letters and reciepts from construction projects? Where are the complaint letters from the people to whom these appearances were sold? Obviously records of donations were manufactured to explain the money for the restorations, the amounts just cover the expenses basically. We have some record of the postcards he sold, but not of the masses. This smells like a cover story to explain funds with no explanation in my opinion.

If he was defrauding folks as the church claimed why was he apparently beloved by his paritioners? They even ostrasized the school teacher in favor of him. Why would the mayor refuse another abbott to be installed? Something doesn't add up there.

Perhaps there is nothing left to find of physical value, but the story itself still intrigues me Smiley
 

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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2012, 06:30:44 pm »
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Another thought that came to me while reading...

I believe this excerpt below from the Article by Elie Tisseyre entitled ‘Excursion on 25 June 1905 to Rennes-le-Château’ could be the source of the marker documented in the "Engraved Stones of the Languedoc" that Sauniere had alledgedly chiseled up. The Blanchfort marker with the latin/greek inscriptions. Since neither the stone or book seem to exist and are not mentioned elsewhere I believe them to be crated articles for the P of S docs. I will gladly recant if either is proven to exist.

from the article:
We also noted in another little garden a stone pedestal supporting a Virgin. The pedestal was very old and beautifully worked but had been restored in order to deepen the relief work and in so doing the workman had robbed it of all artistic merit. A visit to the cemetery lead to the discovery of a large slab in one corner, cracked in the middle, but with a clearly decipherable inscription. It measured 1m30 × 0m65”

Just my opinion.

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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2012, 07:16:20 am »
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I can confirm your suspicions, I agree with your conclusions with the 1905 document at least no mention of Greek or Latin inscription or PS on the headstone other than the following inscription.

A visit to the cemetery enabled us to discover, in a corner, a wide tombstone, broken in the middle, on which one could read a very crudely engraved inscription.
This tombstone measured 1.30 metres by 0.65 metres.‘Here lies the noble Marie de Nègre D’Arles, La Dame d’Hautpoul de Blanchefort, aged sixty-seven, died 17 January 1781, May she rest in peace’

So if Saniure actually defaced the headstone at all it would of been after 1905? And all the later alleged greek and latin inscriptions was perhaps part of the later Piory of Sion scam?

Well Done Idaho Jones Great

But it does not get us any closer to understanding where did Saniure get his wealth from? This makes me think he may of found a cache of treasure either in the church or surrounding countryside.

Hardluck Huh?

Hardluck



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« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2012, 08:56:26 am »
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Hello all

please find this link concerning: SLAB OF MARY OF NEGRO ABLE MYTH OR REALITY?

Link here: >

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Slab of Mary


and some pictures

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« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2012, 05:02:23 pm »
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Hello Luc

Interesting link and even more interesting conclusions about the two reference sources about the inscription on the tombstone.

If the story of the headstone was an invention then perhaps we need to discover if there is any evidence that Marie de Nègre D’Arles existed at all. Here is an alleged document of Marie de Nègre D’Arles death certificate?Huh?

Hardluck

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« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2012, 01:18:50 am »
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Thanks Luc, those are interesting links and pictures. I was fully prepared to believe the vertical stone was authentic and the horizontal slab fabrication. Hardluck however makes a good point (weren't we just talking about "the good the bad and the ugly" in another thread?) Did the grave contain a body or was it a contrivance older in nature?

Nice find Hardluck. The document looks quite authentic as far as I can see, but I cannot read it. What does trouble me is taking the time to create a document which says that a person has died and doesn't seem to contain a date beyond the year scribbled in the corner. Seems a little sparse on detail unless it is written out in the text of the document that I can't understand.

I think it's a good way to proceed, but how to interpret the answer? If we find her she existed and if not who made her up and why???  Grin A fine can of worms yes?

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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2012, 04:55:28 am »
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Hautpoul  Family

Hautpoul home, is one of the oldest nobility of Languedoc, a native of Aussillon near Mazamet in the Tarn.
Rennes-branch Hautpoul born of the alliance in 1422 between Peter and Raymond Hautpoul Marquefave White (daughter of Jacques and Jeanne Marquefave Montesquieu), descendant of Neighbours, which brings in dowry the manor of Rennes.
Branch Hautpoul had in 1739.
Elizabeth Hautpoul, last survivor, died in 1820.
Weapons of Hautpoul "gold two bars of mouth accompanied by six cocks sand crested, beaked and clad in mouth and put a 3.2"

Marriage of Joseph and Mary Hautpoul Hautpoul Blanchefort

The September one thousand one hundred fifty two and the twenty sixth day of September, after the publication of a ban on the twenty fourth dud. months, the fourth Sunday of current, future marriage between Sir Joseph Marie Hautpoul, legitimate and natural son of Sir John Anthony Hautpoul, Knight, Marquis Hautpoul, and fire noblewoman Catherine de Bermond of Puyserguier, the Parish dud. Hautpoul-Felines, diocese of Saint-Pons, on the one hand, and noble lady Mary Hautpoul, legitimate and natural daughter of Sir Francis Hautpoul, Knight, Marquis de Blanchefort and noblewoman Marie de Negri d'Ables (1), on the other hand, prone to the Mass paroissielle, reverend father in God the Bishop and Count of Allet giving waive the second and third ban, comm'il appears by his letters in the shape of the twenty second current, and insinuated conterollées the same day at the office of the insinuations of this diocese, and similar publication having been made in the church of the place paroissielle Hautpoul-Felines, with even waive the second and third ban granted by the Bishop St-Pons, as his letters CONST shaped by the nineteenth of this month and duly crept conterollées acts at the Registry of the diocese eclésiastiques dud. St-Pons and subject mond. Lord Bishop and Count of Allet, ayanrt Devers kept all me, all the certificate of a publication ban kla audf made. held by Mr Hautpoul chrism, parish priest, which certificate has been referred by me. lords bishops, and not having found no impediment on either side, mod. Reverend Father in God Lord Bishop of Allet conducted the marriage ceremony, and having questioned the parties and received their mutual consent the spouses by a solemn words of this, in presence of Mr Felix Pierre Mercier, priest, to résidfent Allet, Mr Jean Rougeat, royal notary Peyriac, resident aud. place, Mr Peter Laran, a lawyer in Parliament, resident in Quillan, and Sr Captier Bartholomew, head aud. Rennes, made for witnesses, signed with Sir Francis Hautpoul, Marquis de Blanchefort lady Mary Negri d'Ables (1), father and mother of the bride, the Bishop and Count of Allet, authorized proxy of Messire Jean Antoine Hautpoul, father of the bridegroom, the. lord and lady wife, other relatives, and we cure dud. instead. "
       The transcript of the text is true to the original.

(1) Marie de Negri d'Ables, Dame Blanchefort, seigneur of the parish of Rennes-le-Chateau, died at Rennes-le-Chateau on 17 th day of January 1781, at age 61
The fief of Montferrand, the community of Bath and Castle Blanchefort, in the eighteenth century belonged to Sir Francis Hautpoul, Marquis de Blanchefort.
The thermal springs of the community of Bath passed into the possession of Sir Joseph Hautpoul, Knight, Marquis Hautpoul, who married 26 September 1752, his cousin, noble-Marie Hautpoul Blanchefort, as reported in the marriage.
The marriage of Sir Joseph-Marie Hautpoul, with Miss Marie-Hautpoul Blanchefort, her cousin, Miss Anne was born Gabrielle Elizabeth Hautpoul-Blanchefort seigneuresse Blanchefort, Rennes-les-Bains, Rennes-le- Castle, Montferran ....
The latter was espoused by Messiah Sir Paul Francis Vincent de Fleury, a native of Caux community which is now in the department of Herault.
Sir-P. Vincent Fleury had two son that was expropriated in 1793, due to emigration, property they owned, including those of Baths (land, houses, hot springs), as Lady Anne Gabrielle Elizabeth Hautpoul Blanchefort had brought as dowry to Mr. PF Vincent de Fleury.
One of them, Paul Urbain de Fleury, born in 1778, bought the 27 Floreal, Year IV, these properties sold as national property.
Paul Urbain de Fleury married Lady Henrietta Girons and died August 7, 1836 in Rennes-les-Bains, at the age of 58 years.
His son Henry Paul Elie Fleury, born in 1820 died September 10, 1875 in Rennes-les-Bains, 1 survival of her four children: Gabrielle, Louise, and Jeanne Genevieve 2 of his widow Jeanne de Castillon de Saint-Victor.
His property and in particular the spas were sold at the helm of the Civil Court of Limoux July 11, 1884, awarded to her eldest daughters, Gabrielle and Louise Fleury. But the contractors have not met the requirements of the specifications, the goods and their dependencies were sold on false bidding, June 7, 1189 to Mr. Coll, Satgé and Bories.

Please see on this PDF document the genealogy of the family-Fleury Hautpoul and page 6 of the wedding of Marie Ables Négre

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« Last Edit: March 25, 2012, 05:02:54 am by Luc »
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