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Offline tragacTopic starter
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2015, 02:07:40 pm »
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RR

please do not write these s..... words
I was asking if someone on forum know  more about this md or have already used....and reason is very simple acceptable price and it is simple for ordering....

sorry about my words but it is not correct


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Offline Ridge Runner
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2015, 02:40:47 pm »
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Quote:Posted by tragac
RR

please do not write these s..... words
I was asking if someone on forum know  more about this md or have already used....and reason is very simple acceptable price and it is simple for ordering....

sorry about my words but it is not correct



Mate, each time your posts go in a new Direction and it is getting very confusing in trying to help you because what you seem to want keeps changing and each time that happens we keep having to start Again, I don't mind as long as we understand what you are trying to do because if we don't know it makes our Answers useless to you,ok Great

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« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 02:41:57 pm by Ridge Runner »
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Offline shaneletts
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2015, 02:50:28 pm »
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The switch is a rotary encoder type

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Offline tragacTopic starter
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2015, 02:55:55 am »
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RR

It is multi function Knob , you can search on youtube to see .....

 

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How on earth do you control a PI machine with just One Knob and one push pad,, which must mean that it is all Automatic unless it has a fixed ground balance, the tune knob must be for adjusting the frequency to tune out EMI,



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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2015, 07:35:44 am »
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A rotary encoder switch Crazy


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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2015, 12:16:09 pm »
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Watched the vids for this on YouTube. This machine does not seem to "discriminate" that well, as at one point it did not read the Guys gold ring properly ...it registered as iron. also supposed to have 2 tones.. yet in one video I heard 3 Undecided. This seems to be another BS discriminating detector with a 'muti point sampling filter'.  Thumbs Down

Unfortunately a PI will always fail as a discriminator  No no! No no! due to the properties of iron. If you have a mixed ground with both ferrous and non ferrous targets/mineralisation it will always read the ferrous targets over the non ferrous due to the longer pulse flyback signal (emf decay curve, caused by the stored inductance in the target and the rate of release of this energy). gold = sub 10us, Iron = anything, including and above this depending on its size & shape.
E.g. If you have iron next to gold in the same sweep, the overlap of the decay curve of the iron will mask that of the gold. That is why this form of metal detector is poor on heavily mineraised ground and good for beaches and uniformly mineralised ground where there is a clear difference between ground and your target..

To help with filtering out ferrous in the search for gold items on 'clean' ground with a PI machine you would need to have a fast coil able to handle reading the sub 10us decay curve,  a fast enough chipset to compare several sample points to ensure that the decay curve lasts less than 15 - 45us (adjustable, the faster the better) and has a smooth and uniform decay curve of the right shape. Then, when only all the parameters are true it should then return a signal. But beware, by doing this you could sacrifice sensitivity/depth and there is still the chance that it will detect small iron and other non ferrous items, so you might as well take the machine for what it is and just dig everything.

If you want true discrimination go for a VLF machine, it might not search quite as deep on small objects, but it will give you a better idea of your target. But with any machine there are positives and negatives to take into account.

I just wish people would not just 'Research' by reading a few books and watching a few videos made by people who don't fully understand what they are talking about. Research is about discovering and understanding what is happening. For example, a true understanding of what happens when different minerals or a combination of minerals are introduced into an EMF field and what feedback is given in each scenario, as compared to a control environment. - this is where people are doing air tests, and seeing what happens when different minerals are passed across the coil  Clapp and not just stopping at passing a coin across the coil then reacting with "oh it goes beep therefore it must work and I'll be able to find my fortune in gold... it does not work that way!! No no!. The question that should be asked is 'why does it go beep and what parameters are necessary for it to do this and are there different results for each type of mineral.

Now go home and do your homework!

(I might repost some of this on a separate thread re PI detectors and discrimination - what do you think - Mods? thanks LD)

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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2015, 02:21:46 pm »
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   Contrary.   PI machines work quite well in mineralised Ground if the Ground signal is subtracted from the Target signal.   This is what gives them the LEG UP on VLF machines.  

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« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 05:09:20 pm by homefire »
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Offline Lord Dracon
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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2015, 03:05:28 pm »
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how does a PI machine ground balance?  do you have a link to this info?


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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2015, 04:49:22 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Lord Dracon
how does a PI machine ground balance?  do you have a link to this info?


It doesn't "ground balance" in the traditional sense. It does so because it never sees the ground no matter what it is composed of. It sends out a pulse which "charges" the surface of metals with an eddy current that is far greater than that developed by a VLF/TR and that is because of the pulse polarization. Then the coil "reads" the strength of those currents.

There are about a dozen good books out there on the subject or you can visit the USPTO (United States Patent and Trademark Office) and look up some patents on the subject.

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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2015, 05:24:29 pm »
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    Here is a good Read for you.   

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