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Offline Rebel73153Topic starter
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« on: August 01, 2009, 01:27:11 pm »
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Ok, i am new to Tesoros and hope to have the Compadre back from Tesoro soon but have some questions about the other models. I am thinking i may want to get another one but don't know what i really need. The Silver Umax has a sensitivity control the Compadre doesn't. What is the advantage, if any of that. I know the Compadre works at a higher freq. than the Silver and is supposed to be a better small gold getter. The Cibola has sensitivity and threshold. Isn't threshold about the same thing as ground balance? If not, what is the difference, and why would the Vaquero with ground balance be better than the Cibola? I mainly hunt for coins and jewelry inland but would like to be able to also go to the beach and use it in wet sand. Will any of the above work for that? Thanks for any help.

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Offline tabdog
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2009, 02:22:25 pm »
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Hay Rebel,

"The Silver Umax has a sensitivity control the Compadre doesn't.
What is the advantage, if any of that. I know the Compadre works
at a higher freq. than the Silver and is supposed to be a better
small gold getter".


I think the advantage is that the Silver is a little deeper.

The Compadre is more sensitive to small gold than the Silver uMax.
It is more sensitive to iron than the S uMax. But, that is actually a
benefit when when hunting in iron. It actually reduces masking.

"The Cibola has sensitivity and threshold. Isn't threshold about the
same thing as ground balance? If not, what is the difference, and
why would the Vaquero with ground balance be better than the
Cibola?"


The threshold is for the all metal mode. The all metal mode has a
constant tone when it is not detecting anything. That tone can be
turned very loud, or it can be turned until it is silent. The desired
amount of threshold tone is when it is just audible. Then you can
tell when it nulls out.

The threshold can also be used in conjunction with the sensitivity
to "supper tune" a Cibola or a Vaquero.

Ground balance is kind of like a discriminator.

All ground has some conductivity. Just not a lot like most metals.
The metal detector can see the ground and respond to it. That is
not good. It makes it hard to find something.

The ground balance can tune out the ground. Then the ground is
said to be invisible to the metal detector when it is ground balanced.

The Compader and Silver uMax actually have a ground balance.
It is inside the case, and it is set at the factory. It is not real hard to
set. I have done it on my machines.

In most places the ground balance can be set and forgot. But, when
the conductivity of the ground changes, the setting needs to change
to accommodate it. The preset machines are at a disadvantage if
the setting is wrong, or if the soil varies.

Ground balance will help on beaches, but these are not wet salt
machines. They will suffer some like most land machines in salt
water.
 
But you can use them on most beaches and even the water. But
some sand conditions resist all but the water PI machines.

Just depends on the beach.

Hope that helps,

Tabdog


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« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 02:30:03 pm by tabdog »
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Offline Rebel73153Topic starter
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2009, 02:25:06 pm »
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Thank you very much for the explanation Tab. I was hoping you would respond. Take care.

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2009, 04:00:05 pm »
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Tabdog gave great advice but the ground balance is more like a "defogger" than a discriminator. It clears away the "morning mist" murkiness of the earth in which we search. Normally it is set like this for manual settings.

Find an absolutely clean patch of soil. This can be done by using the all metal mode and moving about until you have a silent spot. Holding your detector in the air above the ground, start with the knob fully in one direction or the other. You will either have silence or noise depending on which way you have turned the knob. It does not matter. Lower the detector and listen for changes. If there is none, turn the knob a bit and do it again. If you initially had noise, adjust until you get silence. If you had silence, adjust until you have noise. Your unit is now very close to the balance point. Keep doing this in smaller and smaller turnings of the knob until you have just achieved silence. This is the exact spot for manual ground balance for the soil where you are working.

If you have automatic ground balance, when you tune your detector for the soil, set it over a clear spot. Doing it over a target by accident will actually ruin the hunt for you until you tune it again over a clear spot.

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Offline Rebel73153Topic starter
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« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2009, 04:09:30 pm »
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thanks but i am still not understanding how the Cibola can use the threshold adjustment when it doesn't have an actual all metal mode?

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2009, 04:19:01 pm »
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The all metal mode is only for clearing the area of targets. If you tune your ground balance over a target by accident the ground balance will be way off where it should be. You have to be sure the area is target free. Thus, I suggested hunting in the all metal mode but you can accomplish the same thing by turning your discrimination down all the way. That is essentially the same as the all metal mode.

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Offline Rebel73153Topic starter
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« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2009, 04:26:32 pm »
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Ok again thank you. But the Cibola doesn't have a manual ground balance, just the threshold adjustment. And since it also doen't have a true all metal mode i don't see what good the threshold adjustment is. Maybe i'm just dense, but if there is no all metal mode how can you use the threshold noise?

Ok i just re-read your last post and think maybe i kinda understand. Turning the disc all the way down allows you to use the threshold even thought it is not a True All metal?

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« Last Edit: August 01, 2009, 04:28:27 pm by Rebel73153 »
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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2009, 04:40:01 pm »
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Ah, I see. Threshold is the level at which the sound of the metal target becomes audible to your ears. Rule of thumb is to keep it just below the tiniest bit of sound you can hear. If you turn the threshold knob until you can hear a constant low level sound, you turn it back until it just disappears. Too high a threshold and you will not hear those deep whispers of a target. Too low and the sound will not break through into the audible ranges. There are exceptions to the rule though. I will go into just one.

If you are a relic hunter, your targets are often huge and will overdrive your detector making them hard to pinpoint. Thus, the threshold can be a useful way to find the center of your target. Turning it way down when you come across a strap hinge, for example, will allow you to isolate and pinpoint the center of the iron mass so that you can dig around it and perhaps do less damage to your find.

Actually, I will cover one more. If you find a patch of nuggets very near the surface while prospecting, they can swamp your detector with their return and can actually cause your machine to pass over multiple nuggets setting near to each other just under the surface. That will happen sometimes with coins at the beach. You get this signal at first that sounds promising but then you can not seem to locate it any longer. It makes it hard with coins but even more impossible with gold nuggets. The reason? The gold nuggets build up a huge field of eddy currents around themselves from your transmitted signal and they can actually "blend" into one huge signal which will overdrive your detector.

There is a lot of magic going on inside those boxes, mate.

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Offline Rebel73153Topic starter
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« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2009, 04:48:10 pm »
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Ok, i think i got it finally. Grin Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

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« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2009, 04:56:56 pm »
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You want to know the funny bit? When I first found two nuggets near to each other, my detector indicated that the target was right in between the two of them. I dug and dug and dug, deeper and deeper until I finally had to expand the hole making it larger. When I did, I moved one of the nuggets into my spoil heap which changed the target location. Huh? I was confused. I relocated it and dug the nugget smiling. Passing my coil over the hole, I found the other target at the edge of the hole. Well, you could have knocked me over with a feather.

Being an electronics engineer with design experience in this very field, I put both nuggets on the ground and started fiddling to see what had happened. The closer I moved the nuggets, the more it missed them as if they were not even there. I could see them laying there but my poor GroundHog went right over them. As I moved them apart, the detector started picking them up but indicating that the target was right in between them both. Turning down my threshold made a world of difference.

When it happened at the beach with two coins, I scooped between them with nothing to show. Remembering my past experience, I scooped on both sides of the target and got both of them in two scoops. I use a different machine now because the GroundHog is so heavy. One day I will put it in a plastic case to lighten it. One day. Not this day. Another day.

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