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Offline oroblanco
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« Reply #90 on: April 05, 2012, 10:53:36 pm »
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Muchas gracias mi amigo Hardluck for adding a new thread on the lost Wagoner mine!  I will be on that in a moment.

FloweroftheSea - thank you for the very kind words, and yes that is a double positive!  Positive is the way to be if you are a treasure hunter or a prospector, and I suspect you are both! 

Good point about the flood possibly making some changes to the terrain, and there is the great earthquake that rattled Arizona in that same time period.  Several authors have pointed to the earthquake as the real reason why no one can find the mine today, saying that it must have changed the ground and landmarks so much that even Waltz could not find that mine today if he were around to try.  (A side note here but several treasure writers have used that same earthquake as the excuse why the Lost Adams Diggings cannot be found either.)

That said - I am not so sure that either the flood OR the earthquake did so much damage as to make the mine impossible to find again.  If you have looked at old photos of the mountains (pre-1890) and compare to today, there are no great noticeable changes.  There is more brush today, but that is due to not having nearly as many cattle ranging over the area.  <begin RANT> (See, any environmentalists out there reading my dribble, it actually serves a very positive purpose to KEEP those cattle, sheep and horses grazing out on the ranges, they chew down the growth that otherwise just chokes up solid and waits for the slightest spark to make a massive fire.  Think about that the next time you are pushing to drive all the livestock off the public ranges.)  </RANT> One of the landmarks mentioned in a "clue" (I put in quotes because there are SO many so-called clues, over 100 at last count, and darned few can be traced to Jacob Waltz) is the "face" of rock, and there are several of them in the Superstitions.  None have collapsed so far as I know, and the stone "man" figure is still standing too.  A hike through any of the canyons and you will see precariously balanced boulders sitting here and there, which by rights ought to have fallen due to that earthquake.

I won't address the legendary "swinging stones" that supposedly will swing out of the solid rock walls after dark, and rotate back into place by day, for no matter how much Tequila I managed to ingest, I never did see any boulders do that particular trick.  Anyway I am far from convinced that the earthquake did anything drastic to so obliterate the landmarks as to make the mine impossible to ever find again.

Then there is the flood - well that very much depends on where the mine really is, doesn't it?  If the mine were at the bottom of a narrow canyon, it is quite possible that a flood would carry into it a great deal of debris and earth/silt and hide it very well indeed.  Fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on your standpoint) there is no reason to think that the mine is laying down at the bottom or near the bottom of any canyon.  One of the few clues that I think can be safely traced to Waltz is that from the mine, you can see the old military trail, but from the trail you cannot see the mine.  You could not possibly see any trail from the bottom of the canyons in the Superstitions, so at least it is safe from that possible eventuality of being covered up by a flood.  However a flood or any heavy rainfall may well have an effect, which could be the key to help someone locate that mine!

Waltz was closely questioned about his mine, for instance when someone scoffed that it must be nothing but a rich pocket that would pinch out quickly or was already worked out, he insisted that there was enough gold still showing in the mine to make millionaires of twenty men -and this was spoken when the price of gold was officially set at $20.67 per ounce, while local traders were only paying $18!  Waltz stated that the vein he had been mining with his partner actually cropped out down below where they had been mining it, down in the canyon a ways, indicating two things, one that the vein was of considerable size, and secondly that outcropping was something he had to work hard to cover up and conceal.  He stated that he had chipped away all that was showing on the surface and filled in the area just as he had with the mine shaft opening, only not requiring timbers or so much earth.  If a heavy rain or mudslide should occur, it very well may UN-cover that vein where it crops out below the mine!  I have not been telling a lot of people about this point for many years as I did not want the competition and was looking for it myself but at this point I would be happy to see someone else find it - so long as it is not an official of the government that would not benefit from finding it personally in any way.  I know, some will say that is a bad attitude, but the govt stands to profit by anyone finding it via taxes, while if some govt official were to discover it, there will be no gold brought out to put into general circulation and enrich the country as a whole.

Sorry for getting carried away and even onto political aspects, anyway just wanted to add a bit on the possible changes from natural events that may well help the treasure hunter or prospector rather than hinder.  Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the Lost Dutchman mine!  <I have to go post something in the Wagoner thread, heh heh!>   Great

Oroblanco

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« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 11:00:40 pm by oroblanco »
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Offline au fever
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« Reply #91 on: April 05, 2012, 11:08:33 pm »
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 Smiley well put ORO valid points indeed , this is 1 legendary treasure that surely gets the fire in the belly sparking , 1 day probably unexpected someone will stumble on it . cheers Mick  :Smiley

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Offline oroblanco
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« Reply #92 on: April 05, 2012, 11:48:53 pm »
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Mick - I am with you, these long-lost bonanzas get an old prospector's blood going for sure! 

For anyone interested, here is the link for one of the studies done on the Superstitions Wilderness Area;

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MINERAL RESOURCE POTENTIAL OF THE SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS AND CONTIGUOUS ROADLESS AREAS MARICOPA, FINAL, AND GILA COUNTIES, ARIZONA


Is is an Adobe PDF file, sorry but apparently the study done on the stream sediments is not available online and also not available for purchase, but if you check with larger libraries you may be able to locate a copy.  The point is that there is indeed gold in the Superstitions, along with indications of silver and copper as well.  Fortunately for treasure hunters and prospectors, the geologic indications are pointing to areas outside of the official Wilderness Area boundaries, so could very well be open to legally claim.

Here is an extract for our skeptics, quote

Quote:Posted by {author}
On the basis of geologic studies and mineral evaluations made between
1973 and 1977, most of the Superstition Wilderness and contiguous roadless
areas are judged to have little promise for occurrence of mineral resources.
However, two areas in an east-trending zone near the southern margin of the
area, marked by spotty occurrences of mineralized rock, prospect pits, and a
band of geochemical anomalies that coincides with alined magnetic anomalies,
are considered to have possible mineral-resource potential.
  ibid, pp VI introduction summary

So while most of that volcanic and related rock really doesn't hold a lot of promise to find gold, silver, copper etc there ARE areas that hold promise and that is the official word from the US government geologists as a result of a serious field study and tests.  As I mentioned earlier, don't take my word for it, if you look into it for yourself you will soon see that the skeptics really don't know the facts. 

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
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