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Offline seldom
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« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2010, 08:30:07 pm »
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 Here's a little more. the skeleton of a woman found found in 1910 is of interest, not sure why but I keep coming back to it. If anyone has any info on it let me know.



Around 1900, two prospectors, remembered only as Silverlock and Malm, began an excavation on the northern edge of the Superstition. They found some of the gold remaining from the Peralta Massacre, but little else. For some reason though, they remained working the area for years after, sinking dozens of shafts and finding nothing.

Then, in 1910, Malm appeared at the Mormon cooperative in Mesa. He was babbling incoherently that Silverlock had tried to kill him. Deputies brought the man in and he was judged insane and committed to the territorial asylum. Malm was later sent to the county poor farm, none too steady himself, and both men died within two years.
What was it about the Superstition that unbalanced these men?

Also in 1910, the skeleton of a woman was found in a cave, high up on Superstition Mountain. Several gold nuggets were found with the remains. The coroner judged the death to be of recent date although no further information about her was ever found. And the gold nuggets were never explained.
Time Line

1847-ish A massacre of a group of people occurred in what is today known as "Massacre Field" - the victims were either Mexicans or Pima Indians, caught by Apache warriors.

1870s, exact date unknown - Jacob Weiser, partner of the Dutchman Jacob Waltz, died of wounds received by attacking Apaches after escaping the mountains to a nearby ranch.

1880 - Two soldiers who had shown rich gold ore in Florence went into the Superstitions and disappeared; later their remains were found, with a bullet hole in their skulls.  (This may be an incident which occurred in the Four Peaks region in truth)

1884 - Pedro Ortega was found shot dead some thirty feet from the home of Jacob Waltz, dead of shotgun wounds.  Waltz told the sheriff that Ortega's partner shot him after "borrowing" Waltz's shotgun, but many believed that Waltz himself had killed Ortega.

1891 - a legend was born the night that Jacob Waltz, the "Dutchman" himself, died.

1892 - the last known death caused by an Apache attack in the Superstitions, Charles Dobie.  Any relation to Frank Dobie?

1896 - the first reported beheading in the Superstitions, the victim being Elisha M Reavis (brother to the famous forger James Reavis) who lived the life of a hermit on Iron Mountain and sold garden produce to locals; some referred to Reavis as the "Madman of the mountains".

1910 - The skeletal remains of a woman were found high in a Superstition Mountain cave; gold nuggets were found next to the remains, but no remnant of any kind of clothing!
   
1931 - Dr. Adolph Ruth was found dead, his skull detached from the body with a 44 caliber hole through it; Ruth had told two prospectors he had possession of a map to the lost gold mine, these men packed Ruth into the mountains and later took his car.  The authorities ruled the death "natural causes"!!!  Well I guess you would naturally DIE if you are shot through the head with a 44!!!

1934 - The Superstition Mountains claimed the life of Adam Stewart

1936 - Roma O'Hal was hiking in the Superstition mountains, and died from a fall.

1938 - Prospector Guy "Hematite" Frank was found dead in the mountains with a sack of gold at his side.  Another "accidental" death?

1948 - Treasure hunter James Cravey, age 62, was found dead in the Superstitions.  His body was discovered first, and six months later his skull.

1949 - James Kidd vanished in the Superstitions, never seen again.

1951 - The body of Dr. John Burns of Oregon was found with a bullet hole through him.  Even though there were no powder burns and a ballistics expert testified the shot had been from some distance, the coroner's jury ruled the death "accidental" or suicide!

1952 - Joseph Kelly, a native of Ohio, went into the Superstition mountains and vanished.  Two California youths, Ross Bley and Charles Harshbarger, also disappeared in the Superstitions that year.

1955 - Charles Massey, hunting in the Superstitions with a 22 rimfire, was found dead, having been shot between the eyes with a heavy caliber bullet.  The coroner ruled the death accidental, a result of a ricochet!!!

1956 - Martin Zywotho, a native of New York, was found dead with a bullet hole in his right temple.  Although his gun was found beneath the body, the death was ruled a "suicide"!!!

1959 - Benjamin Ferreira killed his friend and partner Stanley Hernandez after they discovered what they thought was gold; the find was actually pyrite, "Fools gold".  Ed Piper shot Robert St. Marie in an old-west style shootout after Celeste Marie Jones had hired St. Marie to kill Piper.  Just two months after St. Marie was killed, Piper was found dead.  An autopsy gave the cause of death as a 'perforated ulcer'.  Lavern Rowlee was shot by Ralph Thomas, who was in the mountains on a hiking trip.  Rowlee attacked Thomas and in self-defense, shot him.

1960 - Yet another beheaded skull was discovered in the Superstitions, this one with two bullet holes in it.  The skull turned out to be the remains of Franz Harrer, a student from Austria.  Also this year, the skeletal remains of William Harvey Jr were found, cause of death unknown.

1961 - Some children discovered the skeletal remains of Hilmer Bohen, who had been shot through the head.  Walter Mowry's bullet ridden body ws found, the cause of death ruled a "suicide"!!!

1963 - Vance Bacon, a hired man working for Celeste Marie Jones (the woman who had a claim on the TOP of Weaver's Needle) fell to his death from the top of Weaver's Needle.  According to some sources, there were rifle shots heard and some indications of foul play.

1964 - The skeletal remains of Jay Clapp were found, but his skull was missing and has never been found.  Richard and Robert Kremis were found dead at the bottom of a high cliff.  Also an elderly couple were found murdered in an automobile this year.

1970 - Al Morrow, long-term prospector, was killed when a boulder fell on him in the tunnel he was excavating.

1973 - Charles Lewing shot Ladislas Guerrero in self defense, at the Robert 'Crazy Jake' Jacobs camp site.

1976 - Howard Polling was killed by a gunshot while prospecting in the Superstitions.   

1977 - Dennis Brown died from a gunshot wound.

1978 - Manuel Valdez was murdered.

1980 - The skeletal remains of Rick Fenning were discovered.

1984 - Walt Gassler, life-long searcher for the Lost Dutchman mine, was found dead in the Superstitions.  In his pack was found gold ore identical to that from under the death bed of Jacob Waltz.

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« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2010, 12:16:37 am »
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Thats quite a list....

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« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2010, 05:45:40 am »
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Hello all

Wow! what a difference a few hours makes  Shocked

Seldom Thank you for the very interesting list of the Murders associated with the Superstitions. I agree with Idaho Jones It is quite list... There is one more you can add, I dare say a few more that we have not heard about. The Superstitions is a good name for a place so intertwined in misery and death.

I read some where that a Herbert Le Roy Stockley a Psychopath murdered a construction worker and his wife that was on a treasure hunting holiday.

BA: The story that Waltz high graded gold from the Vulture mine is very interesting and most likely perhaps closer to the truth behind the legend.

Idaho Jones you made an even more interesting point of the logistics involved to remove gold from that mine which is about 100 miles away. How many days would it take for a man on foot or horse needed to travel 100 miles in that region?  Huh?

Is there any mine records surviving identifying Waltz as a employee?

It seems websites on the Vulture mine confirmed that the mine suffered from High grading.

I read one story claiming at the time he worked at the mine he had an Indian wife called Ken-tee, is that a fact or another colorful legend?

I been looking for old newspaper reports before 1930 because I think they would be a little more accurate before Aldoph Ruth's story in 1931 propelled the legend into superstar legend and host of writers started cashing in on public imagination and wrote all sorts myths about the story.

Has anyone found the original article dated September 1, 1892, The Arizona Enterprise was reporting on the efforts of Thomas and several others to locate the lost mine whose location was told to her by Waltz.

It would be interesting to see the differences between that and the later 1930 newspaper stories?

Hardluck  Huh?






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« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2010, 10:09:53 am »
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Herbert Le Roy Stockley a Psychopath murdered a construction worker and his wife.

Have not heard about that one. Will try to get some dates and put in list. There are others but could not prove them as anything but rumors so left the out.

Is there any mine records surviving identifying Waltz as a employee?
That's going to be hard employment records of that time are spotty at best. I spent 2 days looking though pay records for a big ranch in south Texas here's what they look like.

                             June
Red                50.00
little Jim         30.00       - 5.00 for  horse      bl 32.00

you get the ideal not a lot of info on employs of the day. In fact there is a story on this ranch about a cowboy who worked there from 1881 to 1914 when he died no one knew his last name were he came from nothing 30 plus years and a nobody.

It seems websites on the Vulture mine confirmed that the mine suffered from High grading.

There are reports of Waltz working in other mines were high grading was a big problem, but as Idaho says moving a few 100 pounds of ore around is a problem. That is rough country just for a man on horse back add a bunch of ore Huh?Huh??


Has anyone found the original article dated September 1, 1892, The Arizona Enterprise was reporting on the efforts of Thomas and several others to locate the lost mine whose location was told to her by Waltz.

Hardluck is right this is were we need to start, after this is were all the legends and story's start to cloud the facts.
I am on to a group that hunt for it in the 60's off to the library the internet is only so good.
 

 

 

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« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2010, 12:35:13 pm »
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According to this link publish dates are from 1877 - 1879 for the Arizona Enterprise. Am I missing something?

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http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn95068912/

Another newspapers of the day reference.

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http://www.library.arizona.edu/help/how/find/newspapers/arizona/index.html


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« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2010, 02:03:18 pm »
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According to this link publish dates are from 1877 - 1879 for the Arizona Enterprise. Am I missing something?

No think I missed something. Library was a bust their computers were down and I wanted to get into some data base's that I can't from here. But I did  find a fact or two of interest let me get them into word and will post

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« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2010, 03:55:06 am »
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Hello All

Here is a poor copy of the Sioux Valley Newspaper story 16th of Feb 1901.

The story infers a connection with the four peaks area. And a treasure hunter that discovered a shaft 80 ft deep with picks and human skulls around the site of the mine. And claims the mine is near weavers needle.

I apologize for the poor quality of the copy but please read it if you are able and I am interested any comments on the matter.

Hardluck  Huh?

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« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2010, 07:32:15 am »
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Sorry hardluck can not make most of it out. Is there a name of the hunter. I got a note on a guy named Shaw who claimed to have found a mine in 1900. Have not researched it yet

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« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2010, 08:56:41 am »
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Hardluck that is one of the articals I read the other day, quite an interesting account I thought. I tried to save it in readable format but 100k just isnt clear enough to read here. Its pretty rough to make out in its original scan. I can email a copy if anyone would like. It's saved on my work PC and I have to read it again to make a decent comment on it. There sure do seem to be a lot of skulls associated with this mine if any go looking I recommend a good military helmet!  Grin



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« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2010, 09:24:02 am »
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I am going to catch HE$$ for this but got to say it. After a week of research on the web at the library and in my little stack of info about the Dutchman I have found 3 groups of people involved.
#1 The group who do not believe in the mine or the Dutchman at all. They claim it's all a big hoax.
#2 They are the hardcore Dutch Hunters. The problem with most of them is they are writers, outfitters, guides or owners of a B&B that cater to the weekend hunter. They report finds and information that can not be proved. But they have to keep the interest up to stay in business. They have the facts so clouded up don't know if anyone can dig out the truth.
#3 Are the one's starting at the beginning and trying to understand what took place. Was there a mine?  Did old  dutch high grade from other mines and use the mine as a scam to sell off the ore? Or did he find a cache and that's were his gold came from.

I can not find record's of him selling more then a few thousand dollars of ore in 10 years. If his mine was so rich why didn't he work it or sell it?
 

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