Mormon Gold Coins

Bishop can be bribed,
     LOL
Yeah like you going to tell anyone But I do see the point about being a good Mormon

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		Quote:			Posted by Scipiokid
	What if I'm the Bishop?

Then it want be hard to agree on a price

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http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,13971.msg146817.html#msg146817

Well enough about bribing my Bishop. I went to see him and he turned down the bribe but called me to be a missionary instead.  So, who wants to be a Mormon??  A few other facts and assumptions I uncovered follow;

Fact      Mon Dec 10, 1848    The Mormon Mint began operations 
Fact      Wed Dec 12, 1848   Coins were in circulation in Great Salt Lake City
Assumptions   Some say only 25 coins were minted, others claim coins were struck all week through Friday the 14th
Fact      Mon Dec 17, 1848   Second minting began but crucibles cracked after only 21 coins
               The mint was shut down (for ten months)
Assumption   Many claim only $10.00 coins were minted before the crucibles broke
Fact      Sep 1849      The mint resumed operation with new crucibles from the east
Fact      Jun 19, 1851       The mint closed, stamps and crucibles sold to firm in Carson Nevada
Fact      May 27, 1859      After nearly 8 years, operations resumed with new stamps and new coins
Fact      1861         Mint shut down for good

Some accounts say the Baldwins stole 150 coins, others claim it was 200 to 250.  No one knows for sure because the mint did not keep good records.  Also the coins were all supposedly of the same denomination but accounts differ as to whether they were 5, 10 or 20 dollar coins.

I?ve never seen published an exact date when the robbery occurred but September 1848 and August 1849 are cited by several authors.  Unfortunately, the first date was 3 months before the mint opened and the second was during the time the mint was closed, waiting for new crucibles.  Neither could be correct.

George Thompson?s date is less exact, citing only the year of 1850.  But the mint was in full operation the entire year so his date is at least plausible.  But Thompson also cites 1852 as the year the bodies of the Baldwin Brothers were found by ?Mormon Scouts? crossing the Sevier Desert from the dry lake to the sulfur mines near Cove Fort.  But one wonders what in the world were those scouts doing out there?  Certainly, they weren?t fishing in the dry lake!  Were they looking for the Baldwins, just on a leisurely excursion through one of the most arid, remote and foreboding places on earth with their only possible contact with other humans being the hostile and fearful Ute Indians?  Thompson mentions the sulfur mines near Cove fort as a possible destination.  This seems reasonable as the fort was founded and run by the Mormons as were the sulfur mines.  But a little research reveals another problem.  Cove Fort was founded in 1867 (to protect travelers from the ferocious Utes Indians) 15 years after the supposed discovery of the Baldwin remains and the sulfur mines came two years later.  Again, the story really falls apart.  Even if the fort and mines had been there, one wonders why Mormon scouts would be out in the middle of absolutely nowhere, 50 to 100 miles form any know trail.

I read an article about a significant number of Mormon coins being turned in to the Philadelphia mint for re-coining.  The suspicion being the Baldwins made good their escape and these coins were the loot from the robbery.  No real details were given in the article and the author was quick to dismiss the Baldwin theory, claiming the coins were ?old, worn and used up coin, clearly not the loot from the Baldwin robbery?.  But wouldn?t it have been a lot easier to turn ?old, worn and used up coin? in to the mint in Salt Lake City than to cart it all the way to Philadelphia?  Further research into this matter reveals some interesting facts.  On Feb 13, 1850, it was reported (in the Painesville Telegraph, an Ohio news outlet obsessed with the goings on of the Mormons) that Clark and Co. (A large bank in Philadelphia) had, a week earlier, deposited $3000.00 in Mormon coin, to be exact 150 20 dollar gold coins.  Clark and Co. records corroborate this claim.  At that time, the Mormon mint would have been in full operation having received new crucibles some 4 months earlier.  However, it is highly unlikely that in only 4 months, these coins could have been ?old, worn, and used up? especially when one remembers the Mormon coins contained a silver alloy for strength (devaluing the coins outside of Utah).  So far, this is the most plausible explanation of where the Baldwin loot ended up.  But I guess it?s just as likely some traveler sold goods to the Mormons while on his way back to the east in early 1850 and was paid with Mormon coins, coins that were not accepted at face value, and so he turned them in at the bank to get American cash?and the Baldwin loot still calls to us from the depths of the vast and foreboding Sevier Desert wasteland.  Do you believe in coincidence?

Mel Fisher and George Thompson did.  They had access to all this (and much more) information when they went after the Baldwin loot.  But some new information came to me just yesterday.  A friend, familiar with the Thompson / Fisher expedition told me they spent very little time and only visited 2 sites near the dry lake, then left the desert for good.  Thereafter they spent several weeks in the Uinta Mountains, searching for the lost Rhodes mines and the sacred Carre-shinob treasure trove Caleb Rhodes once claimed had enough gold in it to pay the billion dollar national debt with enough left over to pave the streets of New York.  And that when the price of gold was $28.00 an ounce!  Forget the Baldwins, let?s head for the Mountains!  Oh heck!! (as we say in Utah), it?s on Ute land and they don?t argue about trespassing, mining claims, rights of way etc., they just shoot you!


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scipiokid,   You are the first person that I have come across that there was a written record in a journal talking about the robbery.  That give great hopes to finding other information.   My great grandfather 7 generations ago had Joseph Smith sword and gave it to the church.  Its on display at the museum in SLC.     I am sure that if you could get to the records of the church that are in the archives where they dont let anyone go, would be a treasure trove.  ill admit I gave very little time to this treasure story only with the fact that there would be that much gold coin sitting on the shelf in the mint which was no a secure location.

I always wondered why Mel Fisher came out here to Utah.  I think its interesting that they flew across the desert with their high tech gear.   You would be also be interesting to know where Thompson came up with the Balldwin brothers as the thieves.   I am wondering where he came up with his sources.

From your screen name I am assuming that you are from Scipio.   Im leaving in Orem right now but grew up in Fountain Green.  There is alot of history their.

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http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,13971.msg147801.html#msg147801

Scipiokid, I'm really enjoying these new twists even though I've got no desire to head north to Utah anytime soon.    Still I might wind up asking you a few questions for clarification.

BA

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