Musket rifle accuracy.

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	Musket rifle accuracy. « on: March 29, 2011, 08:10:39 am »

Hi All,
An interesting fact emerged while I was researching a new site where a 12 hour long battle took place in 1812.
So far it turns out that most of the site was quarried and is still being worked as such.
Before I found that out my detecting buddy and I turned up expecting to get lucky with buttons buckles and musket balls, imagine the disappointment when all you see is a hole 1/2 mile across where all these goodies should have been.
While reading the accounts of this battle the following information is given.
1).. American troops..500 total.
2)..Indians.. 300..Total.
3).. British troops..95.Total.
It is specifically mentioned that the American troops had to reload with ammo
38 rounds each and they had almost exhausted this reload at the end of the battle.
Indians were constantly harassing the Americans firing constantly say also 38 rounds each and say they too use that quantity twice.
British troops say also 38 rounds each and say they too fired that quantity twice.

Here is where it gets interesting .
Casualties .....Total all sides....150....that's one hundred and fifty.

Math= Americans fired 38,000 rounds thirty eight thousand.
Indians fired 22,800 rounds twenty two thousand eight hundred
Brits fired 7,220 rounds.

Total rounds fired "approx".....=68,020 sixty eight thousand rounds.
dead and wounded ..= 150.
That is an amazing amount of ball to be used to get a casualty number of 150
I think this is a very good account of the accuracy of muskets back at the time of this battle..........Interesting or what??..........HH....Johnnn

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GoldDigger1950

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	Re: Musket rifle accuracy. « Reply #1 on: March 29, 2011, 02:57:41 pm »

Even today, some combat troops just point and pull the trigger. In combat, I have seen shooters stick their weapon over a protective barrier and fire without even looking. I took my time and aimed, firing with as much precision as I could. I'm still here. Vietnam, 1972, 1973.

As you suggest, a muzzle loader is not all that accurate but some of the misses are down to simply not aiming at a target. I'd say as many as one half. Common practice in combat is also to aim at where you last saw your intended target assuming that they are now hiding very close to that spot. Most of the time, a round is wasted in doing that. Those rounds are precious in combat. You can't just go to the gun locker and get another box. What you have is what you have. In my opinion, wasting a round on an empty spot is a fatal mistake.

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	Re: Musket rifle accuracy. « Reply #2 on: March 29, 2011, 03:06:16 pm »

There are enough stories from the muzzle-loading days of soldiers forgetting to remove their ramrods and/or double and triple loading their weapons because it misfired and they didn't realize it from enough reliable sources to make it seem a frequent occurrence. Still, you'd expect a lot heavier casualty count given the tactics of the day (i.e. volley fire from lines of soldiers standing shoulder to shoulder against soldiers marching in line shoulder to shoulder) unless this is one of those cases (which did occasionally occur) where neither side followed the field manual of the day

BA

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johnnn Topic starter

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	Re: Musket rifle accuracy. « Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 04:33:13 pm »

Hi GD...BA,
I tip my hat to anyone who has served so your point of view is informative,and interesting.
I still lament all the fun we missed "not" having this site to swing the machine around, although I have to say there have been times on other sites where carrying 80/90 balls around is a pain, if this site had been intact there would have been a lot of lead coming out of the ground. ....HH...Johnnn

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	Re: Musket rifle accuracy. « Reply #4 on: March 29, 2011, 05:22:54 pm »

It's funny how you can taste the air when them rounds are scootin over the top of ya head, and the silence there is between shots

AU

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	Re: Musket rifle accuracy. « Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 08:10:57 am »

Just to add my two cents as a Civil War buff if that is OK gentlemen.
Not all muzzle loaders are the same. Some are percussion cap while others are flintlocks. Some are rifled while others are smooth bore.
Other than the old Kentucky long rifles the muskets of the war of 1812 would not have been rifled but smooth bores. They also would have been flintlocks which had a longer delay time between flash to fire. The British Brown Bess muskets were notoriously inaccurate and intend for volley fire.
I saw a testing of one on the history channel where literally they were firring at a barn door. It hit once out of 5 shots. 5 well aimed, patient, unhurried shots. Nothing like actual battle would have been.
A rifled weapon like a Civil War Springfield would have been able to hit at 300 yards. With unrifled weapons 50 yards was very lucky.

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	Re: Musket rifle accuracy. « Reply #6 on: May 14, 2011, 08:32:49 am »

Hi 21st,
I like the input from you guys that know about the "black powder" guns and methods of combat back in the 1812, I mentioned the facts about casualty vs rounds fired because this battle is so well documented and the math just leaps out at you when the accounts are read.
Unfortunately this whole area has been quarried and even skirting the area no evidence exists of its happening.........HH..........Johnnn

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	Re: Musket rifle accuracy. « Reply #7 on: May 15, 2011, 02:11:32 pm »

Hi Guys,
There are verious types of black powder muskets and rifles,
I have been shooting & repairing these as well as making them. while
a smoothbore is more like a shotgun, while the rifled black firearm is more
consistant when firing it. One of the things you can do to increase the acuarcy
of the smoothbore is make sure that one your powder is packed down and
when you seat your round over the powder, make sure the round is seated tightly
against the round. To test this drop the ram rod and place only about a 1/4 of the rod in the barrel and just drop it down. If the ram rod bounces a bit you have a great seal. this will insure accuracy, Now back in the day Im sure that this was not down due to the fact they were engaged in battle. If they had the time to do this the accuracy of the weapon would be greatly improved. another factor is how much powder you are using. I start with 85gr. and work up, to where Im using the max load that the weapon will allow. and never exceed the manufactures warning. and if its an antique weapon, I use the minimum amount
which would be about 85 grs of powder.If You think the Brown Bess is cool 69 cal. I have a friend who is a dealer and collector, and he has a custom made 95
yes 95! cal single shot this was made back in the day for safari hunting in africa
the barrel was made long ( almost like a moder day 50 cal sniper rifle ) and the barrel was rested on the sholder of a gun barrier, there are many types of bp
weapons out there many are buried and many can be found on the net as well.
( sorry but BP Guns is one of my favorite subjects, not to mention another hobby!
if you have any questions concerning these types of weapons just give me a shout. Best Wishes...Rob

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johnnn Topic starter

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	Re: Musket rifle accuracy. « Reply #8 on: May 15, 2011, 03:24:16 pm »

Hi Rob,
That's great info about these weapons, I have about 6000 musket balls in all, my most coveted are the "chewed" balls and then the "extracted" balls these have a small hole in one side which has a thread in it, this tells me that something went wrong during the heat of battle I can just imagine the panic when the gun misfired, the other interesting ball are the impacted type studying them to try and imagine what they impacted against as lead dose "take" the imprint of the sudden stop or "ricochet" ........I have included a pic for you to see....
...........HH.........Johnn

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There are 2 attachment(s) in this post which you can not view or download Please register for viewing them. Chewed balls..JPG Musket balls 1812..JPG
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