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Offline bassman911Topic starter
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« on: July 10, 2009, 10:53:48 am »
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Hi everyone
I am working on a design using a BS2 Stamp.
Has any one tried this path. If so I would love to converse with them.
So far I have produced a rough circuit and a pcb layout but could do with a little help .

kind regards

Bassman

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kind regards

bassman

Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 01:46:13 pm »
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The BS2 uses an interpreter making it slow for anything but the most basic applications. It really is hard to imagine doing a Fourrier transform on a BS2. If you are using it for pulse and frequency generation, try a 555 instead. Use the BS2 for controlling the LCD screen.

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It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 01:55:41 pm »
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Greetings
Thanks for the reply, I was thinking of using the BS2 to display output to a LCD and int
interfacing analog device output to the BS2. any ideas implementing 555 ?


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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 06:13:52 pm »
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Not really. It would be far too incredibly diffi to do in this forum unless you are an experienced electronic technician or designer. I have no idea why folks come here to ask such questions. If you had any idea how to design a 555 circuit, you would be ashamed to ask. If you do not have any experience, you should not ask. It is just too hard to explain in a post.

Use Google and search for the information you want.

Making no real assumptions about you individually, here is my recommendation on the 555. Use it for pulse generation and frequency generation. Use another for gating. The 555 is robust enough and accurate enough for all of your timing.

If you are tempted to design a detector from the ground up, consider a collaborative effort on SourceForge rather than here. You'll have a body of experts there who would be able to help you with design rather than a bunch of folks here who want a schematic which they have not a clue on how to use.

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Offline bassman911Topic starter
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« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2009, 05:01:25 am »
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I have quite a lot of experience in electronics designing valve, IC HiFi, photographic  and remote control equipment.

As you well know the 555 has been around since the late 70's and I used these for photographic timers an liquid level detectors.

I do not have a problem implementing a design using these, but after researching the net on metal detectors I find I have read so much re-hashed stuff I am completley swamped with data, some of which is rubbish.
What I was hoping to find was a friendly voice who could suggest a way forward, and share some concrete ideas as to the best way of implemention ie: coils  VLF PI etc.

As you found I was not ashamed to ask !. I though this was a forum to help people ?.

still another day...


Bassman

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« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 07:40:20 am »
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bassman911;
Im interested, even if nobody else is....

What are you having the processor do, I mean what is its function??
Ive read a 1/2 dozen books on stamps and their close relative ICs and cant get the programming through my head.... It is supposed to be BASIC but seems more like C to me, which In havent studied, yet.... Gues Im stuck back in *)*)s and 6502s.... hmmmm

I find talking about a circuit helps ME understand it better, sometimes it leads to a revision, even before the thing is built, so talk to ma. Ha!

Anyway I would like to know how and what you are doing (any little thing might give me a clue to microprocessors!)

You know, I dont know what to ask because I dont have a clue what you are doing with the BS2, I also find it embarrassing when some guy, of average intelligence (not referring to anyone in particular), is a whiz at microprocessors and I am not, when my (useless) IQ is well over 120. It doesnt mean much, obviously.

I do have one question, since the BS1 has a PIC16C54A, could I use the BS1 programs with a PIC16C54, not in a stamp circuit board?? Im not sure, without lookup, what the BS2 processor is.  What is your opinion?

If a BS2 will make a more sensitive and accurate metal locator... Im for it.

Brian AKA goldigger (beep,buzz,short!)

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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2009, 08:27:14 am »
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Firstly I talked about the BS2 as this is what most people are aware of. The actual micro is  an Atom 24 based on a 16F876 chip.

So far I have a circuit for main controller, PSU, LCD, sound output,a pcb layout for same (this to be amended when inputs are added (pos 555's) and software.

The controller should do following:

display distance to object
display type of object
change sound freq on find
Battery test

I still need to fully understand coil type (VLF, PI) and analog circuits used on metal detectors to add to front end and then write additional software.

The reason I have an interest it the above is I have just moved from the uk to france and am sure there must be lots of interesting finds here.

bassman

 

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« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2009, 09:10:02 am »
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bassman;

Fast repy, WOW!

You must have about 2:30PM there?? its 7:30AM Pacific time, here.

OK, well, Im not sure if I can help with the VLF stuff, I have been concentrating on a PPM design and BFO is easy, but that is un cheval sans fries and ketchup?? Or was that MOOSE.

I did get one idea, this processor will need a touch of AI, in order to LEARN the different signals, AND remember them, especially if the differences are really subtle, as they often are, (where as a trained ear can detect most of these subtleties.)

Speaking from a BFO point of view, it would be easy, for the processor to detect the difference between ferrous and non-ferrous metals: frequency goes down, for ferrous; and up for non-ferrous. If I remember rightly, a microprossor can detect frequency difference but how small can the change be?

If you use a PLL to do the change in frequency detection, then use the processor to evaluate that change... the rejection of ferrous readings, it follows, is in the programming.

I have an idea, for you, but I don't know how valid it might be, and that is to use a square wave, to search, and receive a few of the harmonics... the different harmonics associated in the received signal, may indicate material type and even distance, definitely depth

Example: fundamental frequency of square wave 10 kHertz
Harmonics: 10 kHz(fund), 30 kHz, 50 kHz, 70 kHz, 90 kHz and as high as practical.

A strong reading at 70 kHz should indicate aluminum and/or shallow, because of the increased skin-effect at the higher frequency. An LM567 is a sensative PLL from which you can get modified sine - pin 6, square wave - pin 5, and phase information - pin 1, with pin 1 filtered, of course.

Hope I'm helping??

More, if you need it, because it wont hurt to help inform others that need to know, as well, despite what some on the forum say.

IF they dont like it, and the moderator says shut-up, we can go to email. Ha.

Brian AKA goldigger


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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2009, 01:23:50 pm »
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The problem with busying up the BS2 with generating core frequencies is that the processor can only do so much before it slows to the point of being useless. In spite of numerous designs I have made using PIC processors, I still use a 555 for the mundane tasks of frequency generation, gating and simple digital timing. The processors I use these days are the high end ones capable of Digital Signal Processing, or DSP. They allow me to analyze the return image far better than a BS2 ever could. Couple that with the fact that the entire BS2 chip memory is taken up with an interpretive language parser and you have a formula for slow on the drawing board.

I was not questioning the use of the BS2 for some things but certainly not for signal processing. That was the original question. I stand by my answer. Use a combination of devices. Do not try to make your processor do too much. Or, shift to a high end device designed for DSP.

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It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.
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« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2009, 03:19:26 pm »
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GD;
I think we have a communication problem.... try thinking outside the FFT box. I agree that the BS2 would not handle THAT, but I was not looking at it from that aspect.
 
There may be a way to use PI, with certain (dumb) circuitry, to pass a 4 bit word, to a BS2 and, using appropriate programming, assess the word and/or using a lookup table, even, declare what the target MAY be.  What I suggested, which maybe wasnt clear, was to use AI to assemble the look up table, in a sense (probably not clear again,) on which to base decisions: a self-assemble table, from results.

If the BS2 processor can do a simple learning process, it could save the programmer some hair tearing??

Do you want to hear more? I am expressing some intellectual property, here, (whether anyone can use it, or not,) making it available for public use, even though I have copyright.

Brian AKA goldigger

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