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Offline BrendanLyonsTopic starter
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« on: January 06, 2010, 04:42:56 am »
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Has anyone done any research on King John's lost treasure in the wash, reported to include the kings treasury and regalia. Perhaps 2-3,000 soldiers and servants accompanying his wagon train were lost when they were perhaps caught by incoming tides or quicksand while crossing the estuary from Lynn towards Newark (The crossing area is now believed to be part of reclaimed land, somewhere between Walpole Cross Keys and what is now Sutton Bridge is suspected to be the likely location). The King himself had taken a longer but safer route to his next destination.   

During the 1930s a group of American treasure hunters paid local farmers 2s 6d an acre for their help in looking for the jewels at Walpole Island. More recently a team from Nottingham University took soil samples in a bid to discover the causeway the wagon train used.

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Offline hardluck
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« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2010, 05:52:00 am »
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Hello BrendonLyons

 Welcome

I have a little bit of info in my records on the legend. But by no means and expert on the subject. As I understand there is several different theories on the subject.

 Mr St John Hope of the London Society Antiquaries gave a detail lecture on the subject in 1906. There may be a chance there is still notes on his lecture that may be in some research library somewhere?

There is Gordon Fowler who wrote a theory of advents in "Proceedings of the Cambridge Antiquarian Society" 1952.

A Mr J C Holt wrote about the subject in "Nottingham Medieval Studies" in 1961

It may pay to check Patent and Close roles for October 1216 which gives the date location between each days travel.

This might help you understand a little more about the subject.

Regards Hardluck  Wink

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Offline Alan Hassell
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« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2010, 07:53:17 am »
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Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett believe that King John did not use that crossing and used another route. They believe there was a conspiracy to murder the king who myseriously died a few days after this so called event took place.
They believe the story of the loss of the treasure in the wash was a cover up invented to cover up the real crime that had been committed.  The treasure simply dissapeared after it was probably shared out amongst those that took part in this event.
The strange thing is that despite many well equipped treasure hunts not one single iron wheel or anything else has ever been recovered even over reclaimed land.  I tend to go along with their theories after all they research things pretty well and wasnt on their list of would be treasure hunts.  Incidentally one of the reasons for their treasure hunts was not really for financial gain but only to get something tangible that could prove everything they wrote is correct historically.
The only tangible item that was found was a cross bearing king Arthurs name at a organised dig under the control of Eric Talbot a recognised Archaeologist at the church they own in Wales.
That cross was instantly declared to be a fraud made of lead and cast on their kitchen stove by the academics.
They offered it to Cardiff museum for metalurgical testing which was refused and they were told to they could keep it and still have it in their possession.  Years later this cross was analysed by specialists and found to contain at least 80 per cent pure silver and other metals.  Had this been found in any other country in the world it would of been headline news around the World.  No so in Wales because the English would like you to believe it was a principality because of a Royal Son Charles.  Wales was a kingdom and had been for centuries until the Saxons were able to walk in following the devastation that happened in AD 562.
The story of the wash is just another attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the public like what happened to Edward the seconds treasure.  That mysteriously dissapeared too when he was on the run and nothing has ever been found of that either.
Edward met a very untimely and painfull end too that very few know about.
It was reported that he was a homosexual (gay) is what you might call him today. Being a King they couldnt not just kill him as that would leave marks. So they used a red hot poker and shoved it up his anus which would of been an excruciatingly painfull way to end ones life and no visible marks on the exterior body would be seen.   
Charles the first was beheaded and the country was broke following years of civil war so Cromwell sold off the crown jewels to France/
Cromwell didnt last long after that himself and suffered a similar fate... just a few interesting topics about Royal treasures.


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Offline hardluck
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« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2010, 11:51:15 pm »
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Hello Allen

Cromwell was a bit of a hero of mine even with his faults. He was a little head of his time with a society back then ill equipped for concept of democracy.And the English Civil war may be another source of buried treasures.
 
There is another treasure story relating to a monarch. There is a story of king Richard II who allegedly deposited 100000 marks sterling gold and another 100000 in precious objects in a castle somewhere in Cheshire.

Hardluck  Smiley

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Offline Alan Hassell
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2010, 03:15:38 am »
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Hi Hardluck

you as usual are correct about this several years ago a group of Royal Marines lowered themselves down a well hoping to fomd that treasure.  nothing was found the details now are rather cloudy thats a result of old age hehehe my memory banks are not as sharp these days as they used to be.  Too much new information has replaced stuff long forgotten.  Thanks for the memory jog  regards alan

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Offline hardluck
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« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2010, 04:22:22 am »
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Hello Allan

Some how by you mentioning a well it has jogged my worn out old memory too, I think the castle was called Beeston castle. The well was very deep about 300 ft. It was explored by Peter Stewart of the White Hart Exploration Group in the late seventies. As far as I know there were no publicized results.

I suspected many years ago another location for this treasure?

In Richard II 23 Article of Indictment " That he took with him his crown, treasure and precious objects to Ireland. It is said when he returned he found the country in revolution and he left his the royal baggage, plate and chapel at Haverford West on the Welsh Coast.

There is secret underground chambers under Haverford West castle. They were only discovered when one of the chambers collapsed. But are unable to be opened because of the unstable ground of the foundations of the castle above. Any chance of opening them up could result in the walls collapsing. Or so it has been claimed  Wink

Perhaps  a search there may yield results if possible?

Hardluck  Wink





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Offline BrendanLyonsTopic starter
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2010, 07:28:11 am »
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A link to a good summary of some possible locations and theories

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http://unmyst3.blogspot.com/2009/07/king-johns-lost-treasure.html




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Offline Alan Hassell
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2010, 05:46:27 pm »
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Quote:Posted by hardluck
Hello Allan

Some how by you mentioning a well it has jogged my worn out old memory too, I think the castle was called Beeston castle. The well was very deep about 300 ft. It was explored by Peter Stewart of the White Hart Exploration Group in the late seventies. As far as I know there were no publicized results.

I suspected many years ago another location for this treasure?

In Richard II 23 Article of Indictment " That he took with him his crown, treasure and precious objects to Ireland. It is said when he returned he found the country in revolution and he left his the royal baggage, plate and chapel at Haverford West on the Welsh Coast.

There is secret underground chambers under Haverford West castle. They were only discovered when one of the chambers collapsed. But are unable to be opened because of the unstable ground of the foundations of the castle above. Any chance of opening them up could result in the walls collapsing. Or so it has been claimed  Wink

Perhaps  a search there may yield results if possible?

Hardluck  Wink






This is where GPR or ground penetrating radar comes into its own as a good reseachers tool too. you have to get all the gods on your side if you are to be successful.  I personally have no interest in any of the above treasures I would rather stick to what I am 100% sure of.  As far as Im concerned there is only one last treasure hunt that I am going to participate in.
It is reported that Caswallon was buried in a yellow shirt when he finally died. That yellow shirt we believe is similar to the cape of Mold that was found in Wales and is now in the British Museum where it can be seen by the public.
In the past we have always left it up to Archaeologists to do any excavations leaving every site we have located intact.
However owing to the stupid establishments political correctness system where they dont want anything revealed we are forced to use our own methods which will include the biggest media coverage when we finally decide to attempt the recovery of this much sought after treasure.  By doing it this way and making the world know whats been going on we as a team hope to expose the english establishment for what they are publicly.  Only then will we be able to regain our credibility and discredit the establishment, its phony archaeologists, historians and academics for what they are a bunch of govt grant using hypocrites that dont want the real british history exposed at any costs. That day will come but not when its -20 and the ground is rock hard hehehe.  enjoy

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Offline BrendanLyonsTopic starter
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2010, 02:25:06 am »
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Thanks for your comments Hardluck and Alan, Like they say in prospecting "search where gold has been found" rather than chasing fantasies, but on the other hand if the probability suggests that some form of treasure was carried with the King, and it was lost, then it maybe still there, most likely under 30ft of silt/soil.

A while back I found an article suggesting that a fisherman had found a silver plate on the shore in the general region, I belief stamped in someway to suggest it was from the period in question.  If that can be established as fact, then that would be a step in the right direction.

Also, the following piece from the "online library"suggests that John and his entourage would carry valuables with them.

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http://oll.libertyfund.org/?option=com_staticxt&staticfile=show.php%3Ftitle=2082&chapter=158483&layout=html&Itemid=27


"THE COMMON LAW COURTS AS ESTABLISHED UNDER EDWARD I1
By Frederic Andrew Inderwick

IN 1196, under Richard I., there were numerous appointments of judges to the Curia Regis, including those of Hubert Walter, Archbishop of Canterbury, the Bishops of London and Rochester, and several laymen; and similar appointments continued to be made, both to the Curia Regis and to the Justices Itinerant, until the 52nd Henry III. (ad 1268), when the system was again altered.

In the meantime, however, dissatisfaction had arisen with the proceedings of the Curia Regis itself. This Court followed the King not only theoretically but actually. Where the King went to hold a Court there also went the Curia in both departments; the Curia Regis with the Justiciar, the Chancellor and the Justices, and the Exchequer with the Treasurer, the Chamberlain, the officers and the treasure. And thus the King in his progresses was accompanied not only by his great and smaller officers of State, but by carts and wagons loaded with bullion,3 with gold and silver plate, with jewels, and all the personal treasures of the King not deposited in the Abbey or in the treasury at Winchester. Numerous hanapers, or hampers of plaited rushes or straw, formed part of the baggage, and held the writs, the records, and the tallies necessary for carrying on the business of the courts. And thither in the wake of the King followed the suitors whose plaints waited determination in the King?s Court. These perambulations of the monarch reached their culminating point in the reign of King John. When he was out of the kingdom, Archbishop Hubert Walter acted as Chancellor and sat in the King?s place at Westminster. When he was at home, he was in constant progress through the country, and in the year 1211 it is said that he sat at no less than twenty-four separate towns.1 To all these resting-places the unhappy suitors followed, or lost the chance of their causes being tried. And accordingly it was provided, by the 17th clause of Magna Carta, that for the future, common pleas, or causes between party and party, as distinguished from Crown and Revenue cases, should not follow the King in his wanderings, but should be heard and determined in some ascertained and well-known place. ?Communia placita non sequantur curiam nostram, sed teneantur in aliquo loco certo.? This ascertained place was Westminster Hall, and the Court of Common Pleas retained the name, down to its abolition as a separate jurisdiction in 1875, of The Court of Common Pleas at Westminster."
 3-Hall?s Antiquities of the Exchequer.

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Offline edjcox
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2010, 05:00:05 am »
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Ye deal with history so long ago and here we only go back less than 300 years and it's all so murky even so. 
 
I enjoyed your posts.

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