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Offline AK48Topic starter
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« on: August 07, 2017, 05:31:06 am »
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hello mates it's been a long time that i'm thinking about the relation between depth / disc / and All Metal Mode and the question is : everyone know All metal Mode is the deeper mode for all M.D and Discrimination reduced depth a little on a same M.D , but as i know , the discrimmination is effective at the level of electronics board inside the control box not inside the coil right ? so , as i read on lot of forums , depth is fixed on the board by the power transistor and the current transmit to the coil, right ? i deduct if transmit power to the coil is the same in disc or in all metal mode , how can the all metal mode be deeper than disc mode ? after if engeneer reduced the power of back signal in disc mode at the level of the board ? i don't know !!!
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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 06:02:32 am »
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Any time you modify a working design, you run the risk of making things worse than when you started. Power is not set by one single transistor. Nor is it set by batteries alone. We have had people here who take out 9v batteries and try to run their machines at 12v only to destroy them. Sad, but true.

Inside of your machine are a host of voltage regulators which won't allow you to increase the voltage. They burn up when you exceed certain values. As far as increasing a transistor value by believing a 200mw device will be better served with a more powerful one, all around that part are "biasing" components which will make your attempt fail because those lovely little colorful things are what actually set the gain (amplification of power). And if you were to succeed and add a more powerful circuit, you'd need to change your power regulation by changing your voltage regulators.

There is one way to succeed in increasing your power out. That was is to take your transmitter coil output and add an external amplifier. As long as you don't amplify so much that your delay is ineffective, you can increase depth a bit. Not much, but a little.

Personally, I have given up on discrimination years ago. Even modern computerized detectors can only give you a best guess.  I guarantee you that using discrimination causes you to miss valuable targets. A gold ring standing on its edge can be detected in all metal mode but missed on some detectors. Do you really want that? I don't. I dig every target for two reasons.

One is for the reason I stated above. The second is that clearing out all metals from my target patch means I will not miss a coin hiding behind a gum wrapper or a ring beneath a pull tab. We all have our techniques for hunting but I recommend you try the all metal mode for a while. Yes, you dig lots of trash but your keeper finds will also increase.

As an added benefit, your trash finds make excellent props for answering the looky-loos. "Yep, dug a lot of trash here, and only a few coins." I also take the trash out to shoe ground maintenance folks who question what you are doing to their nicely manicured space.

Posted on: August 07, 2017, 01:57:38 pm
And by the way, my patch when I detect is normally 1 yard by 1 yard and that can take me up to an hour to detect until clean. I've had other detecorists laugh at me but they go home with a handful of clad coins while I almost always turn up with an equal amount of silver coins and gold jewelry. Of course, you have to know your area before that works. A modern park won't do that but a long disused public fairground will turn up buckets of silver coins. Technique is the answer to success, not more power.

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It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.
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Offline AK48Topic starter
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 06:47:35 am »
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hello , you're right guy , the top is in all metal mode and like you i dig everything and you can see theresult . thank you for this lesson

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« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 09:09:11 am »
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   I'm primarily in Prospector Mode.  There is no such thing as Discrimination when prospecting.  Well Iron ID is good but ID not Elimination or Discrimination.  While General Metal detecting Coins , Jewelry and not I re frame from using Discrimination  90% of the time.   About the only time I go with it is if the site is infested with Can Slaw .  Learned many many years ago if you want it all , You Dig It All.   Them Gold rings sure sound and act like Pull Tab most of the time, Eaa?

  I crack up and just shake my head when people start talking TID (Target ID) numbers.   Unless your into just finding like coins under constant conditions those numbers are meaningless.  No Two makes of  machines are going to give you the same numbers for the same target so comparing the numbers to general hunting is fruitless.  A old Analog Detector can tell you way more about a target buy sound then those numbers ever will.   You can tell if it's a Coin, Nail, Coin on Edge or even what type of metal it's made up of if you know the machine well enough..They Talk to you.

Going Tim Taylor on a Detector has two schools of thought.

People are on the mind set that throwing more Power into the ground is going to get you deeper targets.  Well Yes it can some times but most often it will not. When you push more power into the ground you also cause more Noise .  PI and VLF detectors take this a bit differently. 

The PI detector requires the target to Ring with Eddy Currents after the Tx is shut down in order to be detected.  Pumping more power in the ground not only energizes the Target better up to the point of Target Saturation but it Energizes the Minerals and Ground by the same amount.  Now you have to contend with the added back ground signal.  A lower power output in some cases will detect a signal deeper then the later.  This is because the Target signal to Ground Noise ratio is much better.  This is why you have to crank down the Sensitivity on Ugly Mineralized Grounds.

The VLF machine has to contend with all the above in respect to Added Ground Noise and the Added Power Swamping the Rx coil and Front End Amplifiers. 

So it seems the only real way to gain depth is to contend with the Ground Noise / Target Signal Ratio.  Building Circuits with Less Self Generated Electronic, Thermal noise along with Better Signal Processing has been the Current Goal.   

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Offline AK48Topic starter
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« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 04:46:50 pm »
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thank you homefire for this lesson , for example , with my

GTI2500  when the cursor stop over 7.5 on the scale , it's

always a coin at 99% , and with my SMPI last time i found with

it a little jar of gold , the sound was very different from all

over target i usually dig and you're sure it is gold under your

foot and now i always operate in all metal mode because with my

experience , i can decode almost of all sounds . in Algeria and

i don't know why , ground noise has no effect
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« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 05:15:37 pm »
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  Different Ground make up .  I have places here in New Mexico getting a detector ground balanced is a chore.  I know a few places any VLF machine I have are all but worthless because  the Minerals are so high. I have lower freq machines that will run but they don't find the gold available.  Real Small Gold.     Other locations you can crank up the sensitivity to all but max.

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« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 12:07:28 am »
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Hello ! i've almost forget to say the only worries here is hills of dirt and junk because our people never care they don't have complex with cleanlines and they throw garbage all over the place and everywhere , every time you dig , you're sure you gonna meet dirt , foil , can , lot of rusty iron , alumiinum ,biggest chore of the world but i guess it's a good deal for practice and with time and slowly slowly you became a pro and everytime your machine sounded , you know what is down and about small gold like nuggets we don't have only in desert of sahara , elsewhere we find isolated or hoard and little jar of gold and all the rest like rings , brass copper coins , etc ...

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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2017, 10:29:27 pm »
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Quote:Posted by homefire
  Different Ground make up .   I have lower freq machines that will run but they don't find the gold available.  Real Small Gold.   

Only way I solve that is to go over with a low Freq (Fisher1265x) and then go back over with my GB2 (Hi Freq).
Marvin

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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2017, 12:43:55 am »
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hello ! GA_Boy , i see you love Fisher , in the past , everyone know the 1265X goes deep , i never own it , can you make me a board with depth in soil on different things like coins / can / nail ect..... of this apparatus ? thank you
AK48

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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2017, 05:59:58 am »
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Quote:Posted by GA_Boy
Only way I solve that is to go over with a low Freq (Fisher1265x) and then go back over with my GB2 (Hi Freq).
Marvin


If the ground is too hot for a 48Khz machine I don't think a 70Khz is going to do the job.


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