WHY WERE THE STONE MAPS CREATED?

There are as many opinions of why the maps were created as there are thunters. I am always looking for new ideas that might explain their creation. I wouold like to hear any new ideas that anyone might have.

azmula

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It is my personal opinion that the stone maps lead to a location in the SM where the Jesuits hid a cache of the churches' treasures prior to their expulsion. The maps contain 4 to 5 maps imbedded in the two tablets.

azmula

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		Quote:			Posted by sandigger
	Hi, You  ask  why is it in stone   ,   Because they had no Paper..

Grrrrrreat perception! Paper... no cloth to make it with?

Stones do not curl up on the edges like vellum, either!

azmula: Tell me how you know there were Jesuits there? Have you accessed  the Vatican records? If not, why not?

The Jesuits were the militant branch of the church and had a bad repute, in New France.... where else were they acting badly?

goldigger

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		Quote:			Posted by azmula
	golddigger, Either I misinterpreted  your questions or you have been misinformed about the Jesuit Order. The Jesuits were sent to the new world and the world in general because they are 100% obediant to the Pope and church doctrine.  The other orders did not want to send their missionaries in harm's way because of the horrible deaths that they faced at the hands of the local natives.  The Jesuits were and are the finest teachers and scholars in the world. Their organization is based on a military heirarchy but they are not militaristic in the sense of an army. If anything they are socialistic and intent on improving the world. The church does not always agree with the Jesuits and their approach. The Jesuits were sent to Pimeria Alta because they could convert the Indians to the church when other orders could not. They were the finest scholars and advisors of the day. The Vatican restricts access to their archives and censors them to insure that what is read is per church attitudes. It is more accurate to research in the archives in Mexico and Spain. New documents and reports are still being found in those archives and they are not censored by anyone. The Arizpe Stone maps were not the only stone maps created by the Jesuits (Tumacacori, Tayopa, and several in Texas). Stone was used to used to insure longevity of the maps. azmula

Do I take it, from your defense of the jesuits that you are a Catholic? Not that there is anything wrong with it, my sister and bro-in-law are Catholic.... I tend toward Shamanist-Wiccan-Paganism. 

I never  heard that the Jesuits had a GOOD reputation.... have you examined the way they achieved these native conversions? That is one reason for Vatican restriction, on records. Obviously, non-Jesuit records would be more useful.

The Jesuits did not have the best of reps in early Canada. 

What reason would they have to cache their valuables and leave the area? Because they were bad actors? Because of the strong-arm method of conversions?   

I still have trouble associating treasure or riches of any kind with Jesuits.... they were among the most austere orders!  Church valuables? Maybe.

I would like to read something that might show they had these riches and the reason for it. 

I am not trying to knock this, just trying to get a better grasp on the tale. Like a few whys and where-fors.

goldigger


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goldigger,

I do not defend the Jesuits; I am merely presenting facts as I have found them in my research. There is good and bad in every religion. I have found over many years of study that I do not support the business of religion. I have my own interpretation of a religion that suites my needs and wants. It is never wise to debate religion, so I stop here.

It depends on what you call ?GOOD? but if you read about Fathers? Kino, Bolton, Polzer or Mateo Manje you might gain some additional insight. It is easy to find negative writings based on opinions but positive issues need a deeper level of investigation. Most priests, not all, performed the Jesuit conversions very carefully. The Spanish were not as skillful and often were brutal in what they called ?conversion to the church?. The Vatican has fewer original documents that it would ever want to see the light of day. Especially the gold receipts from New Spain, which acquired with out Spanish knowledge.

The Jesuit reputations were varied and require interpretation based on the author (Francis Parkman) and the circumstances that involved the Jesuits. I think you will find that when the Jesuits were seen negatively they were often under the direction of the Pope.

It was known that the expulsion was coming and the Spanish King was watching everything the Jesuits were shipping back to the Vatican (Pope). Most of the gold and silver was being stockpiled until a safe time to ship it back to the Pope. This is a fact that is well documented throughout the New World. The Order also cached the church sacraments because they knew the King would melt them down for the gold, silver, and jewels.

The priests of the Society of Jesus swore obedience to their four vows, one of which was poverty.

Mike McChesney (gollum) has documented many of these facts as I have written both here on this forum and his own website.

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I hope this helps in your research.

azmula


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