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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« on: March 10, 2012, 02:40:06 am »
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Hello All

Just starting off a new topic here on the original story before it became infected with the Yama syndrome and drowned the legend in a sea of conspiracy, counter conspiracy and a whole host of alleged claims.

What was the real story. How much can we verify of the story?Huh?

Gozzo I have read the book you mentioned over 20 years ago. Sadly it was lent out and never returned. Angry

However I for now with have to rely on my old tired memory. The book I recall had some interesting points how it did also have as later proved some errors. However an interesting read.

I have to check my libaray of many thousands of books I have some notes some where. I will post again in a hour or so?

Hardluck

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Offline Idaho Jones
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« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2012, 06:36:33 pm »
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This story fascinates me and I would love to research it more. The rich and ancient history of the area must have more stories to tell.
There must be some details from before the Hammett fiasco to be drudged up but my skills are lacking.  Embarrassed

The problem I run into is all the data I find for the most part is in french and I barely speak english.... The translator tools help somewhat but sentence context seems to get a bit jumbled at times. 

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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2012, 12:54:55 am »
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Hello Idaho jones

Sorry It was a very long hour Grin

I can hope Luc can come to the party with that one. Luc has found and posted many interesting items on this topic.

The legends like so many other legends have been flooded with so many claims and counter claims it is hard to get to the truth of the story. One thing I don't buy is the claims sauniere got his fortune by selling prayers. However I do not buy either the priory of Sion story either especially. Henry Lincon I belived was duped by Piere Plantard. Henry Lincon was orginally filming a documentary on the treasure of Jewreslum.

The Prieuré de Sion, translated from French as Priory of Sion, is a name given to multiple groups, both real and fictitious. The most controversial is a fringe fraternal organisation, founded and dissolved in France in 1956 by Pierre Plantard. In the 1960s, Plantard created a fictitious history for that organisation, describing it as a secret society founded by Godfrey of Bouillon on Mount Zion in the Kingdom of Jerusalem in 1099, conflating it with a genuine historical monastic order, the Abbey of Our Lady of Mount Zion, which is devoted to installing a secret bloodline of the Merovingian dynasty on the thrones of France and the rest of Europe.This myth was expanded upon and popularised by the 1982 pseudohistorical book The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail and later claimed as factual in the preface of the 2003 conspiracy fiction novel The Da Vinci Code.

The first known popular article about Father Bérenger Saunière was written by Roger Crouquet in the Belgian magazine Le Soir illustré, published in 1948.

It would be interesting to see if we could find that orginal article and the American newspaper article?Huh?

Anyone???

Hardluck

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Offline Luc
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2012, 02:11:22 am »
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Hello HardLuck and all those whom this story passion.

Of course that I would be prepared to support HardLuck with this new topic (if time allows to me). I can play the role of French investigator to questions that might be asked and which sources are in France and making it very difficult for you Anglophobe to translate.

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Offline hardluckTopic starter
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2012, 03:02:19 am »
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Hello Luc

Here is a question that needs some clarificatn in a French lanuage perspective on the latin words on the grave stone of Marie de Negri d Ables?

Reddis Regis cellis Arcis. My very lose Latin in English

Who restoreth the king in a enclosed shrine for safe keeping?

Hardluck 

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Offline Luc
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2012, 01:58:10 pm »
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Hey HardLuck

Please find the link to download a PDF concerning some possible translation of the latin words on the tombstone of Mary de Negri d'ables

 Great  Luc



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« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2012, 06:32:59 pm »
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Hardluck, no worries, we've been discussing this mystery for quite a while and if I'm not mistaken will be for some time Smiley

I was reading some more today about the inscription, and had a thought. What intrigues me are the greek letters, not so much what they say but if they originally said something else? Did he carve over something to hide it? Could Sauniere have been changing a clue to protect the location (or whatever) from anyone else finding it later?

Fascinating stuff and thanks for the link Luc, I will check it out too. Smiley

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« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2012, 10:45:41 pm »
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Very interesting Luc, thanks for sharing that file. I'm still digesting it all, but I did play around with some ideas.

Forgive my novice latin and don't laugh to hard as I really am clueless... Embarrassed

In one portion the spelling is:
Reddis Regis Cellis Arcis
While on the drawing it reads:
Redis Regis Cellis Archis

What I am curios about are the first and last words, redis/reddis and archis/arcis

They are interpreted as Rennes and fortress respectively.

Rennes makes perfect sense because of the location I understand, but what if it was one of the other meanings of redis, say return or restore?

Archis, while I can't find an interpretation of the word itself seems to be used in concert with synagoge ie archisynagoge meaning ruler or headpreist of the synagoge.

What does all that mean? I don't really know, but I guess what I am saying is perhaps there is a paradigm?

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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2012, 05:17:47 am »
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Hello All

Thanks Luc for the link.

Idaho Jones interesting interpertation and well done. I came up with the possability of word Reddis being Rennes or Rhedae or who restoreth also?

The source of the information of what was written on Marie DE Negri d' Ables tomb was from an alleged  intinerate archaeologist who recorded the inscription before Sauniere erased it. The words was written in Bulletin DE la societe des etudes scientifques DE l Adude. It was also recorded in a rare book by Eugene Stublein called Pierrres Gravees of Languedoc. However it would be interesting find out the date of those publications?

The date of these publications might help us understand when Saunere erased the tomb inscription?

Hardluck

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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2012, 03:39:37 pm »
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Ah thanks Hardluck, I have been rereading the old posts to refresh as well as new stuff and have too many things swimming around in my head I think. Smiley

My stumbling efforts so far....

Please feel free to jump on anything incorrect as I am sure you know the tale is muddy and very hard to verify. Some of this is notes from elsewhere and some my own interpretation of such and none verified. Bring salt...

The book: Rare is an apt description....

Les pierres gravées du Languedoc(The engraved stones in Languedoc) published in 1884 under the name of Eugène Stublein (born in 1832 in Alet and dead in 1899 in Les Sauzils).

There are a lot of references to this book, but also it's troubling to note that it's said no copies exist, as in the book was never published. It is said to reference the "et in arcadia ego" phrase and is noted first apparently in 1967 in Gerald De Sede's book. If no physical copies or earlier references exist it appears this could be part of the allegedly created Priory of Scion documents. There is some discrepancy as to if this stone ever existed at all.

This would take some local legwork I think to find if the book was or is real. I think you are right Hardluck, this is a key point. 

The Company of scientific studies of the Aude, or ESAS, is a learned society founded in 1889 and headquartered in Carcassonne (capital of the department of Aude ). According to wikipedia.

It mentions the defaced stone sketches apparently in 1905 which is 10 years after Sauniere supposedly took chisel to said stone. Although it is well after the act it is also long before the 1960s alleged forgery date so not part of the Priory of Scion docs. Scientific studies take time to develope so I could see this happening, but it doesn't help us out with nailing down the defacement date.

Apparently The Aude Society for Scientific Studies visited Rennes at least twice but the stone with the inscription "et in arcadia ego" apparently isn't mentioned at all. This brings us back to prove the book is real to prove the carving existed. Of course that would also prove the Priory of Scion references...





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