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Offline SueTopic starter
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« on: June 08, 2009, 09:30:03 pm »
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The Independent has an insightful article plus a nice graphic of the world showing 6 of the most "glittering" shipwrecks. 

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/why-is-there-a-storm-brewing-over-the-right-to-plunder-shipwrecks-1700207.html


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Offline SVBerry
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 07:34:30 am »
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That article mad me sick! Just another blow for treasure hunters at the hands of another lazy, greedy, conniving government. When the day comes that I make my big find, I will say nothing.  Angry

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Offline old man
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2009, 11:16:24 am »
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Sue,

You haven't heard the last of this Court Case. A well known Admiralty Attorney has filed suit on behave of the families that owned the gold from South America. It doesn't look like Spain is going to get the hard earned treasure that someone else has salvaged. So stay tuned for the end result of this Court Case.

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Offline ivan salis
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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2009, 01:02:04 pm »
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the coins were being shipped as "private -cargo" even if on a govt type vessel and as such was the "private property" of the owners as listed upon the vessels  manifest --the fact of the ship sinking does not convert that "private property" the money --into spainish govt property--- its still "legally" owned by the familys of those who shipped the money --and they of course have a "right" to be able to claim their lawfully owned assets from off the ocean floor --(the wreck site per si is non existant being it was blown totally  to bits --so theres really in effect  nothing to "preserve" there in the normal sense of the word)--- of course odyssey for researching and finding the wrecksite , plus for recovery and preserving the coins so that they could be returned to their "legal" owners --- deserves a nice % cut of the finds --

spain is trying to do a "govt grab" of private owned assets being shipped upon the vessel ---using the fact its was being carried  upon a spanish govt vessel as the "reason" its theirs --while ignoring the fact that it clearly was "private assets"of persons listed upon the vessels own manifest.  Cheesy

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Offline old man
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2009, 01:17:25 pm »
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ivan salis, You should have been the Judge presiding in this case. You make perfect sense, a lot more then the Judge or Spain are using.

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Offline SVBerry
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2009, 03:51:34 pm »
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Spain has, through out history, never found any gold. All they did was steal it from the native peoples of the new world. They enslave them and stole from them and then killed thousands. If they had come here and honeltly mined the gold and then lost it. I might feel a little different, but they didn't and I don't. All the treasure is stolen goods, why can't the courts wake up to this fact.

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Offline ivan salis
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« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2009, 08:18:36 pm »
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you have a valid point * --in that the silver and gold was mined from the south american countries using the local natives as "forced" slave labor and after just about all of the native peoples population were killed off during the mining and refining process---the spanish then brought in "forced" african slave labor to do the mining and refining (the mercury fumes coming from the mercury used in the refining process was deadly and killed the slaves due to constant exposure) --- so if anyone deserves it --it the decendants of the folks who were forced to mine it as slave labor --- (the nazi's used "force"during WW2 to loot france's valuible art works during their "military" occupation of france --when they "controlled france " -- this is very similar in nature to when spain's military "controlled" what today is called peru and the looting of its treasure --silver and gold reserves (until the spanish were finally driven out)---  in modern times -- laws now force looted nazi items to be returned to its rightful french "owners" when they are found these days ---so why does spain get to keep its ill gotten "looted" goods? ---and even if you go by the spanish were "there" as the rulers of the area at the time thus its legal exploitation --- then the property was listed on the vessel manifest --as--- spanish "privately owned goods" belonging to the persons who shipped it according to the manifest --- I see no clear path of ownership by which the money of spanish private citizens on a spanish govt vessel  upon its sinking "automatically" reverts  the private property into the spanish govt's money. --- if so by what "legal means" did the "private property of citizens " become the spanish govts property ? -- did the act of sinking somehow "magically" convert its ownership to that of the spanish govt ? --- I think not.

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Offline 1andonlymad4wrecks
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2009, 08:48:30 am »
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I'd just wish Sue would change the topic of her post. No salvor is fighting for the right to PLUNDER anything. We are fighting for our right to rescue, recover and retain items of antiquity and historical and monetary significance that have remained lost for hundreds of years.

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Offline ivan salis
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 07:24:12 pm »
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I would agree "plundering" implies robbery of items --I would much rather see the word "recover" which is what all honest salvors do.

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Offline SVBerry
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 08:04:24 pm »
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Yer don't plunder, the federal government can not handle the competition. The Fed need to keep their butts out of the business. The do not suport the salvors in any way, better yet they hinder them. Then they are the first ones with their hands out when you find something. Angry  They do not care about your finds, all they hear is "GOLD". So like all governments they find some way to steal it.

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