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Offline art3811Topic starter
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« on: August 01, 2006, 07:16:30 am »
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This is my version of a Double Blind test. I use halves of 6 Plastic Easter eggs and a coin. I give my wife the coin and she goes out the back door and I stay inside while she places the coin under one of the egg halves. She then goes around the house and knocks on the front door. I go out, not having any contact with her. I start Locating thinking of anything else except for the Rods. Sometimes it is what I'm going to do tomorrow or a movie I saw the night before. I locate the coin, go in the house and give it to the wife and start over again. I make 10 to 15 passes and then take a break. My results are all ways the same. I find the coin every time.

When I do the test and I think about finding the coin my results are different. The best was 60% finds but the usual is between 30% and 50% finds. I have done this test more than 20 times.

Why do I do these test? To see if I am still doing it right. I refuse to let the Ideomotor Effects control my rods UNLESS I want it to. When I test in my backyard I know that some mystery signal from a SUV will not block my signals. ..Art

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« Last Edit: January 28, 2007, 06:03:52 pm by outback »
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Offline dandequille
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« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2006, 02:52:27 pm »
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Great post art3811!

    Ok, I understand the idea about not thinking about the rods as you scan the plastic egg halves.
    Now you must have some sort of mind set before you out as you know you are hunting for a coin under egg halves.  
   If I were to look for a piece of gold in gold country I would go to the area knowing I wanted gold, but when there actually using rods or whatever, I would blank that idea out of my head and think of something else.  Is that the idea?


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Offline Chris
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« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2006, 05:44:09 pm »
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:Smiley

Well, there you have it.  What else can be said?

If anyone is wondering what it's like to be completely confounded by the ideomotor effect, you need read no further than Art's postings.




The Ideomotor Effect

We are witnessing here a very powerful psychological phenomenon known as the "ideomotor effect." This is defined as, "an involuntary body movement evoked by an idea or thought process rather than by sensory stimulation." The dowser is unknowingly moving the device of choice, exerting a small shaking, tilt or pressure to it, enough to disturb its state of balance. This has been shown any number of times to be true, but the demonstration has meant nothing to the dowsers, like Art, who will persist in their delusion no matter how many times it is shown to them that dowsing does not work. The defensive reaction of most dowsers, following their failure, is to claim that they should not have submitted to any test, and will never do so again. And most will say that dowsing comes under special rules that deny that it can be tested, ever, such as Dell Winders recently said. The discouraging fact is that no dowser is ever convinced, as a result of proper double-blind testing, that they cannot dowse. Their need to believe is so strong and so ingrained, that they will refuse to accept any quality and/or quantity of good evidence. They have adopted a philosophy that shields them against reality.

There appears to be a feeling on the part of the dowsers that if they've been self-deceived, it indicates that they are therefore stupid or naive. This is certainly not the case. Any person, regardless of education, IQ, sophistication, or social position, can fall for the ideomotor phenomenon. An indication of that is that a great number of scientists mostly physicists have embraced belief in dowsing, in spite of their superior knowledge of how the world works. But this is an effect of the mind, a different matter from the workings of the common everyday objects and situations we encounter in our lives.

A Compelling Belief

Please be aware of this, however: though you may be puzzled over this seemingly strange conviction embraced by the dowsers, unless you have actually experienced the ideomotor effect at work in yourselves, you cannot have a proper appreciation of how absolutely compelling and irresistible it can be and is. In fact, dowsers are insistent that the disbeliever should try the effect and thereby become convinced of its efficacy; they assure you that once you've tried it, you'll change your mind. And they're often right in that respect; the dowsing device really seems to move on its own, in response to some sort of external signal or force. As a result of some imagined or real hint from nature water dowsers are often familiar with the topological or geographical signs or conditions that indicate the probability of water in any given spot the operator unconsciously tilts or impels the device, and believes that it is indicating the presence of the sought-after material. That is simply not true. It's a trick of the mind, a very convincing trick, but a self-deception nonetheless.

A test that is concocted by a dowser (in this case, Art), and labeled as a Double-Blind Test, is very different from a "real" double-blind test.  Hence, the results can be completely disregarded and are of no significance.

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Offline art3811Topic starter
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« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2006, 05:56:25 pm »
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This where I get in trouble.....When I found the rod holder it opened a new way of thinking for me. I had been using a LRL for a few years before I knew that everyone thought it was a Dowsing machine. I started looking on the internet and found only Negative things. When I found that my rods would still cross when in the holder I knew there was more to it than Ideomotor response.

Dell was the first one to call my methods physical dowsing. I learned how to find natural signal lines and that improved my knowledge of man made signal lines. I don't know how the signals enter my foot and causes the rods to cross. I think there has to be some directions from the brain for this to happen but I know it's not my hands or wrist doing it.

I try to keep my mind on something else and pay no attention to the rods. When I do this I am 100% on my double blind test. When I think about the target and watch the rods I am right about 30% of the time.

I do use the Ideomotor Effects when I have to and find it helpful. There are some things ( Caves etc.) that I can't find with the other method. I will never bad mouth those that use Idomotor Response as I know some Mental Dowser that are very very good. Hope this helps as I can only tell others how things work for me...Art

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Offline dandequille
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« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2006, 03:52:43 am »
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Chris:
    Art3811's test makes sense to me.  What's wrong with it?  Do you think Art notices with  visual acuity that one of the eggs has been moved slightly and then the ideomoter tricks him into thinking that he dowsed the correct egg?  That hardly seems likely to me.  If a person is successful at finding hidden objects who cares about how it happened anyway.   Just be glad you can achieve something.

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Offline art3811Topic starter
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« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 07:41:12 am »
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Chris seems to think that we no nothing about Ideomotor Effects. He thinks that it can not be controled. It would be a sad world if people did not have some control of the sub-conscious mind. Ideomotor Effects are a powerful urge and try to control the rods but with a lot of practise you can beat it. I see nothing wrong if someone uses Ideomotor Response if they choose. If it works use it.
I let it control my rods on some searches as I have found no other method to locate some targets..Yet...My sub-conscious mind is only right about 30% of the time. That is why I found another way for the rods to work....Art  

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« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 08:44:42 am by art3811 »
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Offline dowserbill
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« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2006, 09:33:16 am »
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I can buy the ideomotor thingie but the think that puzzles me is: How come you can be looking for siler around an old farm site, not knowing there is silver there and sure enough you get a signal from black box to a spot on the ground! Dig and pull out a piece of silver? How does the ideomotor thingie know this. Remember we are speaking of an old farm site which is loaded with iron, tin and all other junk stuff but you go to the silver.  Bill

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« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2006, 10:21:39 am »
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Hey Bill....and this happens over and over. Your mind already knew where the silver was buried...Some thing you saw told you where it was. If some one is near you he knew where it was and you just picked up on it. These are just a few of what the skeptics have told me. We know that objects emit a signal of some kind

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We know that a LRL will send a signal to the target. The argument always comes down to why the rods are reacting. I think it is the reaction to these signals by the body that causes the rods to cross. If I step on a coin the rods will close. If I put the rods in a holder that makes it impossible for them to cross manually and they cross I know it was not Ideomotor Response as every one defines it. I know I'm not tilting the rods with my hands or wrist. I have no idea how they are crossing. I use this frame often as the sub-conscious mind will start crossing the rods for no reason at all...Art

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« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 10:23:42 am by art3811 »
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« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2006, 12:30:06 pm »
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A test that is concocted by a dowser (in this case, Art), and labeled as a Double-Blind Test, is very different from a "real" double-blind test. Hence, the results can be completely disregarded and are of no significance.
Quote:Posted by {author}


I looked for Double Blind Tests. Not any set way of doing it. It has a list of what you expect to happen and how it will be done. Pretty simple
In my test I have no contact with my wife and I know I can not read minds. That takes care of  your fear of information leaks. I know what the target is and that it will be in one of 12 different spots. I think it would be considered an unknown target. When I find the target and return it to my wife it is recorded.
Since no one is watching me that could be a flaw. I could just pick up eggs until I found the target. If I did it this way I would  be wasting my time?.Art


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« Last Edit: August 02, 2006, 12:31:47 pm by art3811 »
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Offline Chris
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2006, 01:32:45 pm »
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If what you are doing is enjoyable to you.  

Have fun.

Grin



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