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Offline BitburgAggie_7377
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2011, 06:59:49 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Waulespan
Anyhow, how can I post a pic of my best Welsh nuggets on here?



Best instructions on posting pictures can be found here:

If you want to add pictures to an existing topic, use Reply instead of Quick Reply.   You'll see an area towards the bottom left of  the message screen for adding attachments.   That allows you to add images from your PC.  There are size limitations, but as long as the pixel is about 620 x 480 pixels, you should be ok. 

If you want to add pictures to your post when you're opening a new topic, you'll find the same option in the message screen.

Another option is to link to a service like Photobucket.

For more info, check

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BA
 

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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2011, 07:18:55 pm »
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Well why don't you get the local gov /education involved the you got help and the law on your own side coz they won't prosicute themselves and just set up something small now before someone pinches your idea and do that part NOW just to protect your self

Good luck john

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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2011, 10:08:37 pm »
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Quote:Posted by auminesweeper
Well why don't you get the local gov /education involved the you got help and the law on your own side coz they won't prosicute themselves and just set up something small now before someone pinches your idea and do that part NOW just to protect your self

Good luck john


Sounds like a good idea to me.....if the UK is anything like the US, if you get the educators on your side your a good way there--- (after all, you can then say "it's for the children"  Smiley )....That if the local authority can be shown how proper panning opportunities might help bring other opportunities, and revenue, into the area they can be a strong force on your side.

BA

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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2011, 01:46:53 am »
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A well presented argument will always defeat slings and arrows.  Thank you for taking the time to enlighten tenderfoots who wear rose tainted glasses regarding potential prospecting!    Forming a responsible club is definitely a step in the right direction.  Offering schools the opportunity to diverse the tedious curriculum with a hands-on history lesson.   The panning centre is another good idea.  North Wales is proliferated by outdoor centres.  Yet at present there is nothing offering the benefits the proposed panning centre would offer.  I look forward to reading updates on your progress to educate the bureaucrats!

Anthony       


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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2011, 06:29:08 am »
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I like it when a plan comes together, now we're gettin some where

john

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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2011, 08:18:25 am »
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Thanks to you all for an inspirational idea. To make this work I need a panning facility, and I asked the National Park authority (which has a duty to 'encourage' provisions for recreation and study) to consider setting up a family friendly facility last year, no reply of course. Now I will take the idea to the education board or maybe some local schools, as you suggest. Lateral thinking much appreciated.
Will keep you posted.
Brian

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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2011, 08:33:28 am »
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My Pleasure Brian go for it and give us an update from time to time, Oh and don't forget BA likes pictures ( coz he can't read ) and he likes coloring them in,good luck ,

john

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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2011, 07:10:34 pm »
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Quote:Posted by auminesweeper
Oh and don't forget BA likes pictures ( coz he can't read ) and he likes coloring them in,good luck ,



John, you've been reading too many Aggie jokes  Grin  But pictures are good....especially of little tykes panning and find their first color at the bottom of the pan.

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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2011, 07:29:08 pm »
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Couldn't upload my scan pic of nuggets as it was 697 not 500. Any ideas?

Anayhow, the CCW (Countryside Council for Wales) has unwittingly been negotiating with a bunch of conmen, namely the British Goldpanning Association (BGA), who are in reality a gang of criminals who rob gold, freshwater pearls, etc. with no shame. Best if they would have kept a low profile, but these idiots have advertised their exploits on the internet. At least responsible detectorists work with archaeologists, but this lot make fun of the authorites, like they are stealing legally!!!

I have responded today to the very misinformed official report as follows -

Countryside Council for Wales

Friday 7 January 2011
POSITION STATEMENT

CCW Position on gold panning

A HELPFUL RESPONSE FROM GOLD RIVERS TRUST

Before a landowner can undertake or permit an activity identified as potentially damaging within a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI), they must consult with the Countryside Council for Wales (CCW). Gold panning has been identified as being potentially damaging to the wildlife of the internationally important rivers, protected as SSSI, in the Dolgellau area. There is no evidence of the presence of endangered species on the Afon Mawddach or Afon Wen, the most well-known gold-bearing rivers in North West Wales. If the only remaining concern is for egg laying and spawning of salmon and trout, panning could be limited to the non breeding months.

The British Gold Panning Association (BGA) acknowledged that certain activities undertaken by panners were damaging and they have proposed restrictions to the activities. The BGA is not recognised by any environmental organisation or the Charity Commission. Gold Rivers Trust acknowledges that some members and non members of the BGA have damaged the physical environment on these rivers in recent years. However, there is no evidence that this regrettable physical damage (mainly the erosion of riverbanks in a few places) has caused actual damage to sensitive flora or fauna within the SSSI notified areas. Perception of damage has mainly resulted from repeated complaints based upon anti-panner prejudice by a few individuals. This has been exacerbated by a few members of the BGA, who have given exaggerated stories to the press and CCW, in order to draw attention away from their own misdemeanours. Instances of false reports are the alleged removal of tons of bedrock from the Mawddach by the so called ?Irish Brian?, who allegedly also dug holes big enough to drop cars into. The BGA members who made these false reports were obviously trying to turn ?Irish Brian? into a scapegoat, in order to re-establish their profit-oriented courses. This attempted smear also had obvious racial overtones. As there was absolutely no foundation whatsoever for the BGA?s allegations perhaps police should investigate this as a racial hate crime. CCW and the other agencies should quickly distance themselves from this kind of personal, racial abuse. These BGA members, who have been involved in negotiations with CCW and the other agencies have been running panning courses on access land for many years, in breach of Schedule II of the CROW Act 2000. Ample evidence is available on the internet, including names addresses and course details, to refer to the relevant authorities for investigation. CCW and the other agencies should immediately distance themselves from these lawbreaking individuals.

If CCW decided to issue consent to landowners for gold panning, it would have to place several conditions to ensure against damage. The consent would be issued to the landowner, as the gold panners have no legal entitlement. This is not correct in all cases. The CROW Act 2000 permits members of the public to be on access land for the purposes of lawful open-air-recreation. Recreational activities are not defined or limited by the Act. Goldpanning (or geological studies) for scientific, educational and charitable purposes is de-facto permissible. However, panning for purely personal profit is prohibited by Schedule II of the CROW Act. Therefore, Gold Rivers Trust usefully suggests that Schedule II is the most effective means by which to control panning activities. It is suggested that if panners are prepared to work towards a collective and community based purpose, this would discourage panners who are only interested in personal profit. Members of Gold Rivers Trust pledge to give all of their gold to charitable causes, including local community purposes. Gold Rivers Trust is regulated by the Charity Commission. Therefore, it is proposed that this charitable approach is the best means possible to regulate goldpanning in the Coed y Brenin.

The landowner would be responsible for ensuring that the conditions are complied with ? and the failure of any leisure panner to comply with the conditions could result in the landowner being prosecuted. As such, a landowner is unlikely to allow panning if he/she could be prosecuted. This would be correct in the case of non access land, but occupiers liability for recreational activities does not apply to CROW access land. Individual goldpanners are responsible for their own activities on access land, where the main gold-bearing areas are located. However, there are also areas of gold-bearing rivers outside SSSI notified areas, which are not leased to the FC, where there are no official controls whatsoever. To be confident that conditions would be complied with, CCW has asked the British Gold Panning Association to consider the information provided to them on the ecological sensitivities of the rivers and work with CCW to develop control mechanisms that would allow self regulation. The BGA is not visibly accountable to the public or any official or private bodies. Therefore, there is no possibility of effective self-regulation via the BGA. Firstly, most panners (regular weekenders, beginners or experienced operators) are not members of the BGA, which has only a handful of members. I suggest that you ask the BGA to supply you with a list of members? names and addresses. Secondly, the leading BGA members operate unlawful panning courses and they also buy gold from panners for sale to a few jewellery companies, which do not report their finds to the Crown agents or pay duties. BGA could very well be involved in tax avoidance scams. Gold Rivers Trust has reported all finds to the Crown agents and official assay offices and has offered to pay duties, if applicable. Thirdly, BGA members are not trained or insured to and cannot by law interfere with the activities of others on any land, access or private; if they attempted to do so this could lead to a breach of the peace. It is, therefore inadvisable for CCW to put such a private, non charitable organisation in such an onerous position. As I have suggested earlier, the most effective method of control would be to require all panning on access land, and indeed on non-access forestry land in the Coed y Brenin to be for charitable (scientific and educational) purposes only. For instance, Gold Rivers Trust aims to improve the economy of the Dolgellau area by providing free services to local schools, so that teachers can help their students to better understand the mining culture of their area. Gold Rivers Trust cannot control access to the river system in any part of Wales. However, it is suggested that a new gold river bearing code is implemented, backed up by more informative signs than those presently provided on the Mawddach and Wen. Quite frankly, the most determined night hawks are disregarding them, and as a result much unobserved damage might be going on as I write this late response in my Oxfordshire haunt.

Arfon Hughes, CCW?s Team Leader in Meirionnydd said: ?Without the right controls in place, CCW will not issue consent for any gold panning within Sites of Special Scientific Interest and anyone panning within these protected areas in these circumstances is likely to be prosecuted." Consent for charitable purposes in non ecologically sensitive periods or CROW access areas is not required. However, Gold Rivers Trust will work with CCW and all other official agencies and voluntary organisations to prevent unlawful and selfish gold panning activities in the future.


END

For further information, please contact CCW Press Officer Br?n Devey on 02920 772403 or 07747767443, or Senior Press Officer Helen Evans, on 01248 387377 or 07717225589.

The Countryside Council for Wales is an Assembly Government Sponsored Body, working for a better Wales where everyone values and cares for our natural environment

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Posted on: February 12, 2011, 07:22:24 PM
In this format, my additional comments are not highlighted as originally. However, anyone interested in finding out the truth, please feel free to contact CCW in Wales. I'm right up there for a fight for the truth, so please comment open house.

Brian

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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2011, 02:36:45 am »
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Brian i will send you a pm later, I'M havin ideas again

take care, john

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