[x] Welcome at THunting.com!

A fun place to talk about Metal Detecting, Treasure Hunting & Prospecting. Here you can share finds and experience with thousands of members from all over the world

Join us and Register Now - Its FREE & EASY

THunting.com
Treasure Hunting & Metal Detecting Community
   
Advanced Search
*
Welcome, Guest! Please login or register HERE - It is FREE and easy.
Only registered users can post and view images on our message boards.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with email, password and session length
Or Login Using Social Network Account
News:
Pages:  1 2 3 4 5   Go Down
Print
Share this topic on FacebookShare this topic on Del.icio.usShare this topic on DiggShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on Twitter
Tags:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline Idaho Jones
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Apr, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 1560
Referrals: 0

7930.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2010, 10:16:35 am »
Go Up Go Down

Not a bad thought Hardluck. What is interesting is the reports that vary so widely. Some say he had extra coal and food and overloaded manganese, and some say he had too little. Some reports claim a cracked cylinder in one engine and then I read something stating it was repaired and both engines were functioning. The fact that the ship was inspected and released makes one wonder, but the inspection was in Rio. Perhaps Worley planned to return to Rio and that's why he headed south?

If only 1 engine was functioning wouldn't the ETA date reflect it?  Like you say Hardluck perhaps the extra weight was using fuel too quickly, or was Worley pushing the 1 remaining engine too hard to make up time? If he lost that engine as well (assuming he had only the one) and was drifting the reported storm could easily have broadsided them. Could that storm have pushed them farther out over deep water before sinking Cyclops? I wonder if there are storm records to show how it was moving?

Perhaps he turned inland to make for an emergency port? There aren't a lot of places between Barbados and Baltimore once you get north of the islands besides Bermuda without going quite a way out of his way. hmmm 
Sorry rambling thoughts Undecided

Here was an interesting tidbit. Perhaps one of the three was found but ignored.

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.numa.net/expeditions/cyclops.html


No clue turned up until 1968 when master navy diver, Dean Hawes, descended on a large hulk lying in 180 feet of water about 40 nautical miles northeast of Cape Charles. Hawes was stunned. He found himself standing on a vessel unlike any he'd ever seen. The bridge sat on steel stilts above the deck and huge arms stretched upward along the main deck into the liquid gloom.

Hawes finally surfaced with the intention of going down again with his dive team, but bad weather forced the navy salvage ship to abandon the wreck and sail back to Norfolk. The dive exercise was rumored to be a searching for the then missing nuclear submarine, Scorpion that was later found on the bottom west of the Azores, and the navy felt no need to spend unnecessary time investigating the wreck further.

Years later, Hawes happened to read an article on the mystery of the Cyclops. Included was a picture of the ship, exactly what Hawes had explored.

Hawes managed to convince the navy to return and check out the site again, but a different wreck was located and nothing resembling the Cyclops was found.

Somebody call Bob Ballard or Paulina Zelitski!  Smiley

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78020.html#msg78020




Logged
Offline seldom
Wrecking Crew
Platin Member
*

Wrecking Crew
Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you19

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 7361
Referrals: 0

20755.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2010, 10:29:48 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hardluck I think the bottle thing was perhaps just a ruse to close the case. I can imagine the families were insisting on some action. Just a wild guess though.

Thats a interesting idea, a ruse by the government who would have thought.

The micro film I wanted to look at is not available right now. The library is having a mold problem because of 6 foot of water from IKE and they are being very careful till everything is checked out. I guess thats a good thing

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78024.html#msg78024




Logged

If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Offline Idaho Jones
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Apr, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 1560
Referrals: 0

7930.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #32 on: March 07, 2010, 09:52:24 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Hi Seldom those dang hurricanes been messing you all up down there haven't they? Hopefully not too much damage was done  :-


the good ol USGS has images for download. Occasionally they do something good! Smiley

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://coastalmap.marine.usgs.gov/gloria/eastcst/geology.html


Not sure the resolution of the download is high enough to see much but I thought it might be worth a gander at the Albemarle Shelf.
Just an interesting note, the Cyclops sister ships 2 of which sank of unknown means and one converted to an aircraft carrier USS Langly which was damaged by Japanese aircraft and sunk. Nothing to suggest a particular flaw but the fact there were only 4 of the Proteus class made says something.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78133.html#msg78133




Logged
Offline BitburgAggie_7377
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Platin Member
*

Define Treasure
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Join Date: Jul, 2009
Thank you116

Activity
76%

United States
Posts: 9235
Referrals: 0

26045.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Fisher Impulse , Tesoro Lobo SuperTraq, Tesoro Vaquero, Tesoro Compadre, Garrett AT Max, Whites Sierra Super Trac
« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2010, 10:02:45 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Well, something good came out of that group of ships as the USS Langley was the FIRST American aircraft carrier  (recognized the name since I used to be an aviation history nut.....those who don't know the history might like reading this----http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Langley_(CV-1).......the Prof Langley the aircraft carrier was given credit by the Smithsonian for building the first heavier than air flying machine for years before they finally officially recognized the Wright brothers.)

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78135.html#msg78135




Logged
Offline Idaho Jones
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Apr, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 1560
Referrals: 0

7930.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2010, 10:21:51 pm »
Go Up Go Down

BA definitely didn't mean to slight the Langley. First of her kind. She survived the fight but died from her wounds, not because of a flaw. I was hoping to find a common problem but there is nothing left to analyze.

Wondering if there was a design flaw in the superstructure, seeing as how aircraft carriers don't have much. Perhaps it was too top heavy? Hatch design? Aircraft carriers probably don't carry as much raw tonnage either but thats just a guess.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78141.html#msg78141




Logged
Offline BitburgAggie_7377
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Platin Member
*

Define Treasure
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Join Date: Jul, 2009
Thank you116

Activity
76%

United States
Posts: 9235
Referrals: 0

26045.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Fisher Impulse , Tesoro Lobo SuperTraq, Tesoro Vaquero, Tesoro Compadre, Garrett AT Max, Whites Sierra Super Trac
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2010, 10:36:23 pm »
Go Up Go Down

I think the 4 probably were not well designed for the role of colliers.  Just looking at them, they look top-heavy as all get out and depended on having a full load of cargo to provide stability---trouble is they probably didn't have the strength to do so.   Part of the re-fit probably included strengthening the hull and lowering the center of gravity in order to accommodate the flight deck which was put above the original deck (about 1/3rd of the way up the stacks of the original ship)   It would be interesting to see what a modern marine engineer thought of the original design plans and material specs.   Come to think of it, given as much as has been written on the Cyclops, it's probably out there in the public domain--if we can find it.)


Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78143.html#msg78143




Logged
Offline hardluckTopic starter
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2010, 02:06:50 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hello BA

There is part 1 of an article of interest in the October 1974 edition of "Naval engineers journal" Asking about the fate of the three ships of that class. It might be an interesting read from a naval engineers viewpoint. Unfortunately I  was unable to get the full article.

Here is the first page of the article.

Hardluck  Huh?



Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78166.html#msg78166



There are 1 attachment(s) in this post which you can not view or download

Please register for viewing them.

firstpage.jpg


« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 02:13:31 am by hardluck »
Logged
Offline ivan salis
Bronze Member
*

Join Date: May, 2009
Thank you1

Activity
0%

United States
Posts: 151
Referrals: 0

55.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

ace 250 currently --but used many many others
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2010, 03:49:17 am »
Go Up Go Down

as a 27 year long retried merchant seaman --I hear several "bad things" about this vessel all at once
-- the report by the ambassador "expects" trouble - and I can clearly see why he thinks so.

#1 -lots of german names (possible mutiny* -- death sentence in wartime if caught doing so if the attempt was failing might as well blow oneself up or captian nutzo might have blown it up to prevent it from being taken over )---
 #2 there was 5 murders on board headed for trail* (it was a death sentance to kill another sailor during war time)--so they got nothing to lose by trying to "blow up" the ship and take their chances "on the open sea" hopefully in a lifeboat .
#3 she was clearly over loaded with a cargo she had no bussiness hauling -- her design lines look poor as well (she looks top heavy) --the 2nd  repaired "engine"--the "fix" might not have held and the captian might have been attempting to return and get it redone properly -- she was burning bad coal and clearly was not in good running condition at the time .
poor qaulity coal means you need to burn even more of it , leading to being even more overloaded by the extra coal you'ld have to carry to make up for its being crappy quality.
#4 mines can kill ship lomg after being laid * (so a sub did not have to be there at the time of sinking  but instead could have set the mines much earlier ) many vessels were sunk by "leftover" mines
#5 with their poor track record of "loss" there seems to be a weakness in the design possibly --brittle metal from the mills that provided the steel for them (similar to the british ship titanic--since they were built around that same basic time frame but in america -- they might have used a similar metal "blend" in making the steel )--or a flawed design that cracked under storm stresses.

that vessel seemed doomed befiore she ever left the dock.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78181.html#msg78181




« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 04:04:23 am by ivan salis »
Logged
Offline hardluckTopic starter
Gold Member
*

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you8

Activity
0%
Posts: 1738
Referrals: 0

8875.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2010, 04:09:18 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hello Ivan Salis

It certainty was a ship with all the cards stacked against it. I cannot  image the foreboding the crew had sailing out of Rio?

I suppose the real mystery is what was final straw that broke the camels back? There are so many possibilities with this ship.

What ever happened it must of been so catastrophic to leave no trace of the fate of the Cyclops.

Making it one of the most enduring mysteries of the sea.

Hardluck  Huh?

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78182.html#msg78182




Logged
Offline ivan salis
Bronze Member
*

Join Date: May, 2009
Thank you1

Activity
0%

United States
Posts: 151
Referrals: 0

55.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

ace 250 currently --but used many many others
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2010, 04:26:42 am »
Go Up Go Down

with no survivors - I lean to 1 of 4 things

#1 brittle metal in hull or poor overall design ---mixed with being over loaded with a cargo he has no bussiness carrying in the first place --  lead to structural failure  and she broke in two suddenly in a storm or maybe even without one .

#2 blown up on purpose --either by german folks trying to mutiny and it failing -- by the nutty capt trying to prevent the germans  from taking over "his" vessel -- or by escaped murders killing their guards and planning to slip away from the vessel in a lifeboat -- making the world think they died on the missing vessel as they try to make their escape .

#3 blown up on accident by  a natural coal dust explosion

#4 a bomb placed in the coal bins by german agents (while she was in port) that caused a explosion or raging fire on the vessel

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,12001.msg78187.html#msg78187




« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 04:30:11 am by ivan salis »
Logged
Print
Pages:  1 2 3 4 5   Go Up
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines | Sitemap
Copyright THunting.com