[x] Welcome at THunting.com!

A fun place to talk about Metal Detecting, Treasure Hunting & Prospecting. Here you can share finds and experience with thousands of members from all over the world

Join us and Register Now - Its FREE & EASY

THunting.com
Treasure Hunting & Metal Detecting Community
   
Advanced Search
*
Welcome, Guest! Please login or register HERE - It is FREE and easy.
Only registered users can post and view images on our message boards.

Login with email, password and session length
Or Login Using Social Network Account
News:
Pages:  1 2 3   Go Down
Print
Share this topic on FacebookShare this topic on Del.icio.usShare this topic on DiggShare this topic on RedditShare this topic on Twitter
Tags:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Offline seldomTopic starter
Wrecking Crew
Platin Member
*

Wrecking Crew
Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
12%
Male
United States
Posts: 7364
Referrals: 0

20770.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« on: April 03, 2011, 10:04:35 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Reports of Gold in the Guadalupes goes all the way back to General Lew Wallace, Civil War Hero and Governor of New Mexico,  who claimed that he found an ancient document in the Palace of Santa Fe, the capital of New Mexico. The document indicated that Indians had guided Spaniards to a gold mine in the Guadalupe Mountains. This was back in the 1600's. Supposedly all the Spaniards who knew where the mine was were killed in an Indian uprising. So this story does not give many clues, expect that the mine is in the general vicinity of the Guadalupe Mountains. Today, when we hear of the Guadalupe's we naturally think of the distinctive Guadalupe Peak. As I think about this story though, I am not sure how broad this area might have been, at the time the document was written. In my mind, the term Guadalupe Mountains might have referred to a general area, not as specific as what think of today. There are a number of spurs, or smaller ranges coming off of Guadalupe Mountain proper.

This story was pretty widely distributed in the 1800's, and during the latter half of that century there were people actively looking for this lost Indian/Spanish mine. If you have ever visited the Guadalupe Mountains, the first thing you probably noticed is how beautiful they are. They just sort of pop up out of the desert. The second thing you probably notice is how remote they are. The only two towns of any size nearby are Carlsbad, in New Mexico, and Van Horn, in Culberson County Texas. Both of the towns are some distance away. So, in the late 1800's this would have been an even more remote, and inhospitable place. In particular, large areas south of the Guadalupes have no water to this day.

During the latter part of the 1800's, the area was active with Indians. The Apache were among the last Indians to submit to life on the reservation, and the area of the Guadalupe mountains was one of their last haunts. Their chief,  Geronimo, often claimed that the richest gold mine in the western world lay hidden in the Guadalupe Mountains. I heard once of a frontier family moving out to a ranch south of the Guadalupe Mountains in the late 1800's. As they were approaching a watering spot, they saw an Indian jump up from beside the watering hole, jump on his horse, and ride off. When they approached the watering hole themselves, they found a gold nugget there beside the water. They speculated that it had been dropped by the Indian. This story would also reinforce the idea that there was gold in the area, and that the Apache knew where it was.

While there were many white prospectors looking for the mine, Ben Sublett is believed to have found it.

Sublett had been prospecting in various places in the West. At one point he ended up near Monahans Texas. Sublett's wife died, in the 1870's.  His family lived in a tent in Monahans, and he did odd jobs to try and support his family. Sublett then began to prospect in the nearest mountain range of any size, the Guadalupe Mountains of West Texas. Sublett continued to prospect the Guadalupes, with little or no luck. It is possible he was helped by, or at least friendly with the Apache. He eventually moved to Odessa Texas.

Sublett became the town character of Odessa because of his non-stop search for treasure.  Few took him seriously until one day he showed up in Odessa with a pouch full of gold and buying drinks for he whole town.

There are many eye-witnesses in Odessa at the time that reported seeing Sublett's gold and his free spending on drinks for the whole town.

It is well documented that over the remainder of Sublett's life, he always had gold, and whenever he was running low on money, he would disappear for a few days and then reappear with more gold.  It is reported that he generally would bring back about $1,000 dollars of gold at a time, which would be about 3 years salary for a working man of that day.

There are countless stories of people trying to track Sublett and find the location of his secret mine, but it is generally believed that no one ever successfully followed him.

When Sublett would disappear, he might be gone for only a few days, and he might be gone for months.  Some confusion has been generated over the fact that on occasion Sublett would leave, and return after only a few days with Gold.  As a result, people have speculated that the mine must be further east of the Guadalupes, since he would not be able to make it all the way to the mountains in the time he was gone.  It is much more likely that he would periodically make a trip to the mountains, retrieve a large horde of gold, and then "hide" it somewhere closer to home.  With this system, Sublett would minimize the chance of anyone finding his mine, and his short trips out of town were not a major expedition to the Guadalupe's but likely a leisurely camping trip to wherever he had his horde stashed. Worst case, someone would only be able to find his horde, and not the mine that was the source of his wealth.  It is possible that he had gold cached at different locations in the area, or even at various caches between the Guadalupes and Odessa.

It has been reported even that a banker in Midland paid  a person to track Sublett to try and find the location of his mine.  It is generally believed that no one successfully followed Sublett to his mine.

Sublett held his secret closely, and appeared to be somewhat bitter, even after having found the mine.  He had worked hard to find it, and appeared to be bitter over the prospect of anyone sharing in the gold that had not paid the dues that he had.

Even so, on occasion, Sublett would share some "clues" with his friends or acquaintances.  It is reported that he once gave specific directions to Mike Wilson, and that Mike Wilson actually found the mine, brought gold back to town, and went on a drinking binge.  After the binge, he forgot the location of the mine, and was never able to find it again. As I hear this story, I wonder if he was actually taken to the mine itself, or possibly just one of the smaller chaches.

It is also reported that on occasion, Ben Sublett actually took his small boy, Ross to the mine. There are stories from people living in the area that Ross could be seen wandering the Guadalupe Mountains vicinity searching for the mine that his father had taken him to as a small child. There are no reports that he was ever successful in locating the mine.

Sublett died in 1892 and is buried in Odessa.

Posted on: April 03, 2011, 08:37:14 PM
 

Posted on: April 03, 2011, 08:38:30 PM
These are the "Facts" as generally accepted today among treasure hunters:

      Ben Sublett was a true, historical figure, not a myth.
   

      Ben Sublett had an unexplained, significant source of wealth.

      Ben Sublett lived in West Texas, in Monahans, and then Odessa
   

      Ben Sublett would sometimes disappear from town, and would return with gold.

     Sublett likely had a "special" relationship with the Apache Indians.  He frequented the area of the Guadalupe Mountains in a time when the Apaches were still hostile in that area.
 

      The Gold Mine is likely somewhere in Culberson County Texas, or in Southern New Mexico
 

      The Gold Mine is likely in the general vicinity of the Guadalupe Mountain Range.

All of these facts have been widely reported and documented.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg159990.html#msg159990




Logged

If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Offline casca
Bronze Member
*

some where else.
Join Date: Nov, 2010
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 445
Referrals: 0

2245.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Pioneer 202 Bounty Hunter, cen-tech pinpointer, Chicago Tools 43150.
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2011, 10:21:57 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Awesome post. Indians means indian trails. Maybe some military records could say where the Indians were fought? Looked like some very rough terrain when I drove through there.  Any ideas if the mountain has any sort of protective status?



Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg159996.html#msg159996




Logged

The more I learn, the less I know.

Offline seldomTopic starter
Wrecking Crew
Platin Member
*

Wrecking Crew
Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
12%
Male
United States
Posts: 7364
Referrals: 0

20770.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2011, 11:23:30 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Lot of it is part of the    Guadalupe Mountains National Park.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg160002.html#msg160002




Logged

If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Offline hardluck
Moderator
Gold Member
*****

Join Date: Aug, 2009
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Posts: 1739
Referrals: 0

8885.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2011, 05:23:06 am »
Go Up Go Down

Hello Seldom

Thank you for interesting treasure story. Great

 I have not heard that one before.

Hardluck

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg160029.html#msg160029




Logged
Offline casca
Bronze Member
*

some where else.
Join Date: Nov, 2010
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 445
Referrals: 0

2245.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Pioneer 202 Bounty Hunter, cen-tech pinpointer, Chicago Tools 43150.
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2011, 09:51:45 am »
Go Up Go Down

This one is definitely a puzzle. Large area, and probably hidden.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg160114.html#msg160114




Logged

The more I learn, the less I know.

Offline seldomTopic starter
Wrecking Crew
Platin Member
*

Wrecking Crew
Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
12%
Male
United States
Posts: 7364
Referrals: 0

20770.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2011, 09:53:10 am »
Go Up Go Down

After a lot of research into Old Ben and his wealth back in the 90's this is my theory.

#1 Ben found a outlaw robbery cache and over a number of years cashed it in. The banker where Ben keep his money stated that after a short disappearance Ben would show up and deposit cash into his account, he never could figure out where Ben sold his gold. This makes me think he had little gold but a source of cash money.
#2 Ben found or was told about an Indian cache which he dipped into as needed. Its been debated many times why the Apache's left Ben alone yet were on the warpath robbing and killing a majority of the time his story took place.
#3 Ben found a Spanish mine and worked it. I have always had problem with this theory. First the geology of the area is not the kind where gold is found. Yes there may be a placer somewhere in the Guadalupe Mountains  but I doubt it.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg160115.html#msg160115




Logged

If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Offline casca
Bronze Member
*

some where else.
Join Date: Nov, 2010
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 445
Referrals: 0

2245.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Pioneer 202 Bounty Hunter, cen-tech pinpointer, Chicago Tools 43150.
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2011, 03:27:16 pm »
Go Up Go Down

I think your last theory maybe right. The volcanic activity here had the power to push deep deposits up toward the surface. I think that may be the real mother lodes we hear about. Not placer, but hard rock mines legends are made out of.

I would have to think about the Spanish having much to do with it. I see the Spanish as invaders and they took what they could, and made it their own. The Ben's son was looking for exactly what in his search? Dont believe the Indians would need to mark their own mine. But you could be right.

There are several who came up with gold in this area. Doc Knoss and the Dutchman come to mind. I always wondered if they were just good at robbing people? The banker was onto something, Van Horn is still run by just a few people, would need to check records if they were kept of gold transactions.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg160205.html#msg160205




Logged

The more I learn, the less I know.

Offline seldomTopic starter
Wrecking Crew
Platin Member
*

Wrecking Crew
Join Date: Jan, 2009
Thank you2

Activity
12%
Male
United States
Posts: 7364
Referrals: 0

20770.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2011, 05:51:03 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Quote:Posted by casca
I think your last theory maybe right. The volcanic activity here had the power to push deep deposits up toward the surface. I think that may be the real mother lodes we hear about. Not placer, but hard rock mines legends are made out of.



The area is a million year old sea bed  the volcanic activity could push it up to the height  of  Mt Everest and there still will be little gold there.

 I think your last theory maybe right.

Thats the one that has little or no proof of being possible. There is little archeological evidence that the Spanish are any one every did much mining in the area

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg160266.html#msg160266




Logged

If you believe everything you read you are reading to much.
Treasure is a Harsh  Mistress

Offline BitburgAggie_7377
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Global Moderator
Platin Member
*****

Define Treasure
Klugheit und Verstandnis
Join Date: Jul, 2009
Thank you10

Activity
100%

United States
Posts: 8832
Referrals: 0

24655.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

GTAx1250, Fisher F4, White's Classic 5 ID, Fisher Impulse , Tesoro Lobo SuperTraq
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2011, 10:44:05 pm »
Go Up Go Down

Quote:Posted by seldom
Thats the one that has little or no proof of being possible. There is little archeological evidence that the Spanish are any one every did much mining in the area


I guess we should never let the evidence get in the way of a good legend---When the facts don't agree with the legend, sell the legend.   

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg160446.html#msg160446




Logged
Offline casca
Bronze Member
*

some where else.
Join Date: Nov, 2010
Thank you0

Activity
0%
Male
United States
Posts: 445
Referrals: 0

2245.00 Gold
View Inventory

Awards

Pioneer 202 Bounty Hunter, cen-tech pinpointer, Chicago Tools 43150.
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2011, 12:00:16 am »
Go Up Go Down

The area doesnt fall into the known gold in New Mexico thats for sure. Those lava tubes were a favorite place for the indians to hide their stuff. Victorio Peak is one Im thinking of right now. There is also rumors of underground caverns in the caballo's that run for miles, filled with sulfur gas......legednly speaking of course.

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,22611.msg160465.html#msg160465




Logged

The more I learn, the less I know.

Print
Pages:  1 2 3   Go Up
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2005, Simple Machines | Sitemap
Copyright THunting.com