Tarnished gold ring

luckyp Topic starter

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	Re: Tarnished gold ring « Reply #40 on: October 14, 2009, 06:08:23 pm »

Thanks GD.When I post one of my find it is because I have a question I want to learn about it.This is why over the years I have gain experience.I do not have any experience about metalurgy and will study about it.Might come back to you with my objections Grin

Yes the east coast i that area used to be great for fishing.Now with over fishing and regulations I have gave up for metal detecting instead.Not a great year so far but all together not too bad.
Sorry for all the commotion that I have created.Cordially.PY

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	Re: Tarnished gold ring « Reply #41 on: October 14, 2009, 07:31:10 pm »

	Quote:	Posted by GoldDigger1950
Metals used with gold to form alloys have valence level bonding that does not allow corrosion or oxidation. Period. Why do you think they select the metals they do? Copper, silver, brass and not zinc, lead or tin? There's a reason for that Luckyp, and you are simply not understanding it. Look, mate, don't take it personal. When I asked if you were sure it wasn't plated because I and others noted the scratches, you explained it. What that did was change the answer completely. That's all that should have happened. Instead, we see a few guys who think they know more than metallurgists know finding a web page that actually proves what I said but somehow convincing themselves that it doesn't. The metals in alloy with gold MUST leach out before they can react. They do NOT react or tarnish while they are in alloy with gold. The metals used to alloy with gold are chosen for that very reason as alloy metals. It's a subatomic bonding and there is no room for oxygen in that bonding. None at all. Do you know another metal that will bond with gold at room temperature? Mercury. Miners know this. To them it's a tool. How do you remove that bonded mercury? It's not easy and failing to do it right can kill you. The mercury is, however, bonded just like an alloy metal.

This is what the experts say,

Our skin on which the jewelry lies, is provided with thousands of perspiration glands. Chemically the perspiration is mostly fat and fatty acids. These essentially mild chemicals are enough to cause corrosion of 14 karat gold especially when aided by warmth and free access of air.

You are not an expert compared to these guys.

They are

Fisher, Dr. Alexander A, What Causes Gold Smudge, Jewelers Circular-Keystone, March 1971.
Gardam, D.E., Why Jewelry Sometimes Blackens the Skin or the Clothing, The Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths, Special Report No. 4, October 1989.

You may look a little foolish talking over them,

Tabdog

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« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 07:56:32 pm by tabdog »	Logged

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	Re: Tarnished gold ring « Reply #42 on: October 14, 2009, 07:51:14 pm »

We can look through the smoke screen and see
now that it is obvious that Lucky found himself a
tarnished Artcarved ring made of 14k gold.

He was right, even though his critics did not beleive
him and continued to doubt him even when they
knew they them selves were wrong

It lookes good to me. No signs of platting.

Very nice ring.

Congrats Lucky,

Tabdog

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	Re: Tarnished gold ring « Reply #43 on: October 15, 2009, 08:33:41 am »

That is one beautiful ring, and found in an area where there is not much wave action - great find.

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	Re: Tarnished gold ring « Reply #44 on: October 15, 2009, 11:29:53 am »

Ok, one more question on the subject: Do encrustaceans count as tarnish? Or is that a separate catagory of discoloration? (GD, please hold back on mentioning anything involving seafood!) Cool

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GoldDigger1950

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	Re: Tarnished gold ring « Reply #45 on: October 15, 2009, 01:20:51 pm »

	Quote:	Posted by tabdog
This is what the experts say, Our skin on which the jewelry lies, is provided with thousands of perspiration glands. Chemically the perspiration is mostly fat and fatty acids. These essentially mild chemicals are enough to cause corrosion of 14 karat gold especially when aided by warmth and free access of air. You are not an expert compared to these guys. They are Fisher, Dr. Alexander A, What Causes Gold Smudge, Jewelers Circular-Keystone, March 1971. Gardam, D.E., Why Jewelry Sometimes Blackens the Skin or the Clothing, The Worshipful Company of Goldsmiths, Special Report No. 4, October 1989. You may look a little foolish talking over them, Tabdog

They are wrong on some things and right on others. It is you who looks foolish for believing them, mate. It is not corrosion. Gold and the metals in modern alloys do not have the ability to accept an oxygen atom so what they are describing is a plating process caused by a chemical reaction. That is what I have been saying all along. TabDog, if you look hard enough, as you have, you will find someone out there with an opinion just like yours. You choose to ignore the thousands who disagree with that just so you can make points here? How sad.

The facts are the facts and physics cannot be changed just because you do not believe in it. Sorry.

And I am an expert, TabDog. This is why I offer my expert opinion on the matter. You, on the other hand, can use Google.

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It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.

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	Re: Tarnished gold ring « Reply #46 on: October 15, 2009, 01:31:28 pm »

	Quote:	Posted by BackAtcha
Ok, one more question on the subject: Do encrustaceans count as tarnish? Or is that a separate catagory of discoloration? (GD, please hold back on mentioning anything involving seafood!)

Things can stick to gold and gold alloys. There are even bacteria that attack gold because of the arsenic in ore but pass the gold atoms through without damage. I can tell by your question that you do understand why gold and gold alloys do not tarnish. I studied metallurgy when I was at university and became an electronics design engineer rather than a geologist. It was just something I liked learning about and still do.

As I mentioned in another post, I worked on a project years ago that was intended to remove gold atoms from seawater using a variety of techniques. I gained much more knowledge in failing to succeed than I would have if we had been able to do it. We did actually manage to extract free gold but the process cost far too much compared to the gold recovered.

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It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.

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	Re: Tarve nished gold ring « Reply #47 on: October 15, 2009, 02:20:26 pm »

I have seen gold 80% encrusted with foreign materials.

Ive seen gold black because of the silver contents was high and in the sun sulfieded the silver.

I still dont beleive Alloyed gold better then 10k will tarnish.

If it did tarnish it would be only a few atoms / Molecules from the surface.

All could be cleaned via soft cloth and soap and water.

Do I have a PHD? No! But I could for a donation of a few grand.

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luckyp Topic starter

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	Re: Tarnished gold ring « Reply #48 on: October 15, 2009, 03:18:14 pm »

I have agreed GD that I do not know anything about metallurgy but I have twice demonstrated that it is clearly a 14k ring and by the density and weight of 7.6 dtws.I also asked on one of my last reply that if it is not tarnish was is your opinion on the color of my first pictures and black marks after first polishing.Your reply will be appreciated.

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	Re: Tarnished gold ring « Reply #49 on: October 15, 2009, 03:51:30 pm »

maybe theres only one sure fire way to put an end to this and that is do a SG test on it SG means specific gravity Im sure you can google it and find out how its done then use an accurate pair of scales to do it. The result of the SG test will tell you exactly what % of gold is in it. Grin

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