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Offline rwalovenTopic starter
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« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2010, 07:22:05 pm »
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i dug it in upstate new york not far from oswego which is near lake ontario no i never thought it would get this much attention you guys sure do go out of your way to help a guy out i want the snow to go away soo bad I've got detecting fever now there are so many sites to be hunted thank you all

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2010, 03:07:25 am »
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Look at some old Kopeks from the 1700s and you will see the exact same two headed eagle.

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It's all about that moment when metal that hasn't seen the light of day for generations frees itself from the soil and presents itself to me.
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« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2010, 06:00:13 am »
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Will do GD

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So many questions so little time
Offline rwalovenTopic starter
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« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2010, 07:09:34 am »
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Gd the heads are the same but no crowns but does make me think we are on to something cuz the heads do look exactly alike

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Offline BitburgAggie_7377
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« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2010, 10:41:49 am »
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It is possible that the crowns did not survive the re-strike process that added the inscription and the holes.  (i.e. the combination of heat and striking pressure, coupled with normal wear).  If the Kopeks were a low value coin, especially versus the British pound or the US dollar, it would be economically viable for the restriker to use them  instead of paying for fresh blanks.    I need to do some checking, but I'm pretty sure that I've read accounts where British and American manufacturers did find it cheaper to buy old coins in bulk from "eastern" Europe and re-use them rather purchase "virgin" blanks from local manufacturers.   Remember too, that immigrants to the US would have found most of the money they brought with them to be worthless.   As such, they would have been willing to part with it at a fraction of its "official" exchange rate just to be able to buy day to day necessities.

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Offline rwalovenTopic starter
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« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2010, 12:45:40 pm »
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the bird does appear to be eastern Europe russian in origin I'm starting to think maybe a merchant may have restruck rather than buy new blanks and the back strike was soo weak that's maybe why it wore out soo bad could explain a few things the holes i have no clue about still but the bird does look kopeck in origin everything is still a mystery but that's half the fun Smiley

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« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2010, 03:33:33 pm »
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This is what a Kopek looks like nothing to do with what you have Rwaloven

Regards xavier

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So many questions so little time
Offline BitburgAggie_7377
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« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2010, 04:27:47 pm »
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The problem that bothers me most about the Russian Kopeks are:
1) the birds on the Kopeks all have crowns (ours doesn't, but it could have disappeared during the re-stamping process)
and
2) every picture I've seen of the Russian double-headed eagle, including every coin representation shows the sceptre in one claw and the orb in the other---our bird has neither, and I don't think both images would disappear in the re-strike

ON THE OTHER HAND......I think Russia still may be a good possibility, but as a government issued token rather than as a full coin.  We should also keep in mind that much of Eastern Europe especially between Germany and Russia changed hands frequently between the 16th and 19th century.   Each conquest would mean new coinage and getting rid of as much of the old coinage as possible (through re-minting, sale, melting for cannon, etc).

You all might be interested in this website that shows various tokens recovered in England (including one recovered from Highnam that has a bird similar to ours, but not identical).  If you follow the link, I'd also suggest going up to their home page and read it....some good information there that may help us.

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http://www.glevumdetecting.co.uk/tokens/trade.htm
   

(by the way, I'm still looking for my reference regarding the guy in New York who imported archaic coins  from eastern Europe to use in his machine shop).

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« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2010, 04:45:55 pm »
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There are three things missing on that (I will call it emblem) plus there are two things more and that is the two rings round the two holes that makes five differences plus the two holes now that's seven at a first glance. These two holes are the key to what it was. And I still want to know what it?s made of Rwaloven go to your local jeweler and ask him.

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So many questions so little time
Offline rwalovenTopic starter
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« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2010, 04:49:22 pm »
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I agree i don't think its a kopek but maybe eastern European might be getting close I'm baffled as to what it was doing in the middle of no where

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