Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding

Gramps43

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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #10 on: March 04, 2012, 12:35:39 am »

Lets get a few things straight here, Odyssey Marine is "not" a thief they are no different than a prospector searhcing for gold, silver or gem stone. They expened tremendous amounts of money and time searching the ocean bottom for what they find. Spain on the other hand enslaved the natives and forced them to mine the silver, to probably smelt and form the coins.

Now back to Odyssey, they find wreck on the bottom of the of international waters and to their wonder they find numerous silver coins. What they do not find is any indication of the name of said ship, no bell, no plaque attached to the mast and no flashing neon sign saying "yo dudes I'm the Mercedes" so they brought up the coins and took them home.

Now back to Spain, they claim they never relinquished ownership, if so why the hell haven't they been out there low these 300 odd years trying to find their fallen comrades and the booty they were carrying, smells of crass opportunism. Oh and by the way Odyssey tried to have a conversation with the Spanish and they stuck their mediterranean snoots in the air.

I agree with Cholo the coins should be returned to the countries of origin at Spains expense.

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Posted on: March 03, 2012, 11:13:27 PM

Sloweddown, It has to do with maritime law and the fact that Spain claimed the the Mercedes was a war ship, where Odyssey claimed she was on a commercial mission because a lot of the silver and so on was privately owned. But I must repeat that nothing was found at the wreck site identifing what vessel it was so Spain is blowing smoke up everybidies porthole. The judge did in fact make a very bad decision predicated on information he did not have.

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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #11 on: March 04, 2012, 12:56:47 am »

I found a brass pipe in a camp site last year with my metal detector. Would a Judge want me to give it back to the owner {DON'T THINK SO} It now has lead pored in it.Maybe SPAIN WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT TO.

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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #12 on: March 04, 2012, 01:51:16 am »

	Quote:	Posted by homefire
Recovering Abandon Treasure from the sea floor in International Waters does not make a thief.

From my understanding the wreck was not located in open waters but within Spanish waters. If I am not mistaken this was also the reason why Odysee did not want to disclose the exact location.

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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #13 on: March 04, 2012, 02:22:46 am »

The location was approx. 20 miles off Cape saint Maria Port., below is from Odyssey site:

Following Odyssey’s announcement of the "Black Swan" discovery, the Kingdom of Spain filed claims contending the sunken treasure was taken from a Spanish sovereign ship in Spanish waters, and is therefore the property of Spain. However, Odyssey has stated clearly that the recovery was conducted in conformity with Salvage Law and the Law of the Sea Convention, beyond the territorial waters or contiguous zone of any country. Spain has since conceded that the treasure was not found in Spanish waters.

Generally 3 miles is territorial water, beyond that is international waters. The Odyssey crew said they cound not see land from the wreck site.

Gramps

Posted on: March 04, 2012, 01:11:09 AM

This is the definition of territorial water:

Territorial waters, or a territorial sea, as defined by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea,[1] is a belt of coastal waters extending at most 12 nautical miles (22 km; 14 mi) from the baseline (usually the mean low-water mark) of a coastal state. The territorial sea is regarded as the sovereign territory of the state, although foreign ships (both military and civilian) are allowed innocent passage through it; this sovereignty also extends to the airspace over and seabed below.

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Posted on: March 04, 2012, 01:19:32 AM

Regarding conversations between OME and Spain go to this link

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http://www.shipwreck.net/pdf/OdysseySpainCommunications.pdf

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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #14 on: March 04, 2012, 06:45:11 am »

the spanish never gave up on their treasure, cause they knew one day someone would locate and bring it to the surface. Knowing that they would get it back by fair or foul means, "theives and murderers thats the spanish"

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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #15 on: March 04, 2012, 06:49:38 am »

Like I have said before, Spain deserves nothing. They had the means to do it themselves, but like always they want someone else to do all the work and then they steal it. Not unlike the way they did it before, but with lawyers. I would melt it all down into bars before handing those bastards one ounce. Possession is 9/10th of the law. Keep all the gold and silver coins and sent Spain the artifacts (junk) for their museums. Then see how much they cry foul about their national heritage treasure. Odyssey Marine tried to do it right, now do what is fair. Melt it all! Angry

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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #16 on: March 04, 2012, 07:36:56 am »

@ Gramps: Is there a known Google Earth position of the wreck? If yes, we could easily measure the distance. If I was Odysee and the wreck was within open waters I would simply rule out any 3rd party claim by giving proving this / giving out the coordinates. However if it was not in open waters I would not give them out. So I wondered if they ever made it clear to the public where there wreck actually is located?
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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #17 on: March 04, 2012, 09:13:40 am »

As usual, we don't have all the info on this site and exactly what went on in court about it. Unless their was some political motivation, which is quite likely, it would seem if the wreck was more than 12 miles off shore, then it was in open waters. Also if it was the Mercedes, it was during a battle when it sank, and was possibly closer to shore. Now, being in battle would make it a war ship possibly, but how about it being a cargo ship trying to defend itself against the loss of the treasure aboard and having the war ships of the fleet helping to defend against the loss? I doubt that would make it a true military war ship. So all in all, it is all quite vague as to what we know, and why they decided in Spains favor, but I believe it was more of a jesture of politics in the US with Spain dealings, after all, the US Govt. loses nothing, as they have no right to the treasure anyway. Sure, Spain took it from South America, so I guess they should file a claim for it also. But why haven't they? I expect they know they won't get it back. Spain needs the money, they are in debt. Do you really think this will all go to museums? There were too many common 8 reale coins, so coins for sale in Spain is more likely. It's all politics and it's all about money for a country with money problems. Odyssey spent 2.1 millon on this salvage, they have already written it off. They have learned a valuable lesson and it won't happen to them again.

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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #18 on: March 04, 2012, 09:23:52 am »

Gramps43 is right on Clapp

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	Re: Treasure Hunting Company Learns "Finders, Keepers" Not Always Binding « Reply #19 on: March 04, 2012, 09:28:44 am »

The bigger problem is the US court actions sets a precedent for Other Pirates to Swoop.

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