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Offline fenixdigger
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« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2010, 09:29:30 pm »
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Thats dam hard to do when it was me and him in a park. That is not the most unbelievable thing I have seen done. I have a silver broach I found from almost 1/4 mi. No certified film or anything like that. It is the smallest item i have found at that distance. Wish you had been there.
Carl;

I'll pm you tomorrow.

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Offline Dell_Winders
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« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2010, 09:54:00 pm »
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Fenixdigger, Carl, is subtly begging you to let him test you, and after you fail his test, you will be thanking him for his kindness in showing you the error of  your belief that you could possibly pass HIS test with your LRL.

I wish you the very, very, very best of luck, because that is what it will take to pass his test and for him part with his $25,000, "carrot on a stick" temptation.

In my opinion, you have a far better chance of finding your Spanish Treasure than you do winning Carl's challenge.

I certainly know none of the LRL products I build, or have used could ever pass his test the way Carl, has designed it. Yet, many Treasures, and discoveries have been reported found through out the world with this method of locating, including myself.

So again, good luck!..   Dell  

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Offline Carl-NC
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« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2010, 10:18:06 pm »
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Dell, I invite you (as I have many times before) to design an LRL test that is winnable.



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Offline Paul A
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« Reply #23 on: September 26, 2010, 09:02:54 am »
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Quote:Posted by Dell_Winders
Get Carl, to design a metal detector test that he is willing to give you $25,000 if you pass, and then you will understand.   Dell


Thing is you see, that a metal detector would actually pass (because they work)
I'd like to see thw SAME test - detector vs LRL
Quote:Posted by Carl-NC
Dell, I invite you (as I have many times before) to design an LRL test that is winnable.


Hey Carl! .... That'll be the test where all the goodies are clearly marked by a four foot square flourescent flag that can be seen from 2 miles away!  Grin Grin

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Offline fenixdigger
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« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2010, 09:03:41 am »
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Here's the only glitch I see. When we use these, we can get close enough to use a detector and determine if it is a good target or a micro gold deposit. Now some of the sellers say they can knock them out. I don't think they have been where I hunt. But we still have to use a detector. Some of the guys say they can do this without one, I'm not that good or my equipment isn't.

Here's what I've found; When you pump a lot of power out the mineral deposits show a response like the whole area is solid gold. If you under power, you are attracted to items that have a sort of electrolysis going on. Miss the right setting and find a lot of either old shotgun shells or aluminum.And if you don't think I can find a telephone junction at a hell of a distance with electricity running through gold connections you are wrong.

I had been trying to prove the ideomoter idea to see what the skeptics were talking about. I would put a unit in, say a property owners hands and tell them nothing except to point it and walk, sometimes I would tell them it would beep. Always a response.(no beep) I finally saw what they were talking about.  I went to help a guy with locating a target and he could not get a reaction to anything. I finally got in front of him and saw him instantly correct the unit from any movement to keep it straight. It was so fast it was hard to see and it was very subtle.  Once I convinced him to let it swing around a little, the responses started to show. I can get on one side of a building and scan a area and mark the spots, one of my guys can go on the other side and scan at the same time. The spots will be the same.   

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Offline Dell_Winders
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« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2010, 09:41:59 am »
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Quote:Posted by Paul A
Thing is you see, that a metal detector would actually pass (because they work)
I'd like to see thw SAME test - detector vs LRL

Hey Carl! .... That'll be the test where all the goodies are clearly marked by a four foot square flourescent flag that can be seen from 2 miles away!  Grin Grin


You can learn a lot with comparison tests. Been there, done that. I've compared a  large variety of LRL's against each other under equal field operating conditions. I have conducted real  field  comparison tests of LRL/ MFD with  Metal detectors, Magnetometers, GPR, EM, SP, and  map Dowsed locations, on land and water.

An excellent Metal detector vs LRL, comparison test would to bury the 10 oz Gold bar  5 feet, or more deep, within a defined 5 acre area of woods & pasture, using experienced operators, or non experienced operators with 1 hour of instruction, and see which found the Gold bar the fastest, the LRL or the metal detector? Let the winner keep the 10 oz. Gold bar.

Or, you could compare the LRL, with the metal detector, for locating shallow targets such as Emeralds, or Diamonds?

These would be fair comparison tests for the LRL, or MFD.  And since you and Carl, already know that LRL, or MFD don't work you have no chance of losing the 10 oz. Gold bar, and the $25,000 cash.  Right?    Dell

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« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 09:46:14 am by Dell_Winders »
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« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2010, 11:01:57 am »
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No

You bury the bar 1ft deep so IT WILL BE IN RANGE of the metal detector.
And presumably the lrl.
You get one shot at finding it (ONE HOLE AND ONE HOLE ONLY).
Or are we saying that the lrl is "too vaque" to precisely pinpoint something?
That, is a fair test.
God I'm getting bored with all this.........................



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Offline Carl-NC
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« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2010, 11:54:02 am »
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Quote:Posted by Dell_Winders
An excellent Metal detector vs LRL, comparison test would to bury the 10 oz Gold bar  5 feet, or more deep, within a defined 5 acre area of woods & pasture, using experienced operators, or non experienced operators with 1 hour of instruction, and see which found the Gold bar the fastest, the LRL or the metal detector? Let the winner keep the 10 oz. Gold bar.


Why 5 feet deep? Why 5 acres?

Let's make this really easy! Bury the gold bar 6 inches deep in a 1-square-foot area. Then allow the detector operator and the LRL operator to scan that 1 square foot, to see if the gold bar is there or not. Can an LRL not scan such a small area?

Quote:Posted by Dell_Winders
Or, you could compare the LRL, with the metal detector, for locating shallow targets such as Emeralds, or Diamonds?


By demanding that a metal detector be tested for something everyone knows it can't possibly do, you demonstrate just how frivolous your contributions are to the conversation. Previously, I stated,

But it's unfair to demand a level of performance beyond the product's claims.

You seem to think its perfectly fair to do so. Even the most ardent LRL proponent should see your attitude as flippant and arrogant. Why don't you propose a serious scientific test protocol for LRLs? Can't do it?



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Offline fenixdigger
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« Reply #28 on: September 26, 2010, 12:53:47 pm »
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I know my Minelab will get a drink can @ 4 ft, and one of my 2-box units will dam sure reach 5 on low.

The lrls need to triangulate from 2 or 3 spots. Following a signal line can sometimes work, but then something called ring theory comes into play.

I would think that 50 to 100 ft would be as close as I would want to start from.

My normal procedure is to triangulate to a point where the detector will find it within a 5 ft circle.

The silver broach I found @ 1/4 mi was 3 ft off the final pinpoint. I don't think I would have found it without the detector.

So you really need both on long buried targets. 

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Offline Carl-NC
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« Reply #29 on: September 26, 2010, 01:42:20 pm »
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Fenix, if I place a 10-ounce gold bar on the ground, how far away do you need to be from it in order for your LRL to indicate its presence?

Put another way, have you ever laid targets on the ground and walked around them, testing your LRL's response? If so, how far away from the target(s) do you typically walk?



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