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Offline HobbyistTopic starter
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« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2009, 12:03:35 am »
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Thank you for the link, Rational Observer. And I do agree that it is odd that JIA looting seems to be hardly documented. I'll keep hunting for publications on this matter too.

UPDATE: I have yet to receive a reply from the Seagraves. Either they are tardy or have chosen not to reply.

Being a bit bored on a rainy Sunday, I finished off the book. Another inaccuracy was found on page 254. "Malaysian Borneo" did not exist in 1948. For that matter, Malaysia had yet to exist in that year too. I am not an historian and do not assume know all the pertinent data, but it seems to me that if a writer can make such glaring errors on relatively-unimportant facts, what about the accuracy of the really important facts? I think I'll not waste the effort to write to Verso Books. 'Nuff said.

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« Reply #41 on: October 28, 2009, 03:52:30 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Hobbyist
Thank you for the link, Rational Observer. And I do agree that it is odd that JIA looting seems to be hardly documented. I'll keep hunting for publications on this matter too.

UPDATE: I have yet to receive a reply from the Seagraves. Either they are tardy or have chosen not to reply.

Being a bit bored on a rainy Sunday, I finished off the book. Another inaccuracy was found on page 254. "Malaysian Borneo" did not exist in 1948. For that matter, Malaysia had yet to exist in that year too. I am not an historian and do not assume know all the pertinent data, but it seems to me that if a writer can make such glaring errors on relatively-unimportant facts, what about the accuracy of the really important facts? I think I'll not waste the effort to write to Verso Books. 'Nuff said.


If I had written the book, I would have used modern territorial designations, BUT, I would have included maps to show pre-WW2 territories  and a modern map overlay, to show how and where borders had changed. Obviously they did not do this, and it is not clear that they knew there were different borders, then. Modern territorial references can make the story seem more real.

It sounds like bad research, to me. I wrote a book of historical fiction, in the 80s, and researched for months. I wound up having to stretch a few dates to make it all fit. BUT! That was fiction, so I would say for a history based book, such as this, the data has to be accurate or there should be a statement of information withheld or altered to protect certain groups or individuals.

You have not mentioned any such declaration, so..... but is the book a good read, despite these errors or omissions?

goldigger

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« Reply #42 on: October 28, 2009, 04:25:17 pm »
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In a book written on a later date , Malaysian Borneo is used  as an indication . I was called for centuries  as SERAWAK .  Cornelius

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« Reply #43 on: October 28, 2009, 04:49:23 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Cornelius
In a book written on a later date , Malaysian Borneo is used  as an indication . I was called for centuries  as SERAWAK .  Cornelius


Thanks, Cornelius, yes SARAWAK. I have a Dutch friend, here that was in the military, near that region, and I am sure I have heard him say Sarawak, many times. (Ambon?) Of course he has had many interesting stories to tell, about anti-Japanese maneuvers, as  he was a demolitions expert. He was also in the underground in Holland, with a few hair raising stories, although he did not speak much of the underground. (He also  received a medal from the Dutch Crown, for his underground activities.)

Next time I visit with him I will ask about Japanese treasure, to be sure. He may know or have heard something. He is getting on in years.... close to 90, I am not sure of his exact age, I just know he is about 20 yrs older than I. But more active than I am, too, and very sharp for his age!

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« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2009, 12:48:10 am »
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Quote:Posted by goldigger
If I had written the book, I would have used modern territorial designations, BUT, I would have included maps to show pre-WW2 territories  and a modern map overlay, to show how and where borders had changed. Obviously they did not do this, and it is not clear that they knew there were different borders, then. Modern territorial references can make the story seem more real.

It sounds like bad research, to me. I wrote a book of historical fiction, in the 80s, and researched for months. I wound up having to stretch a few dates to make it all fit. BUT! That was fiction, so I would say for a history based book, such as this, the data has to be accurate or there should be a statement of information withheld or altered to protect certain groups or individuals.

You have not mentioned any such declaration, so..... but is the book a good read, despite these errors or omissions?

goldigger

The authors attempt to be credible in the very first sentence of the Author's Note: " Many people told us this book was historically important and must be published - then warned us if it were published, we would be murdered." If you want an "entertaining" read, borrow a copy or buy it 2nd hand. It's not worth the brand-new price.

If you want something that is more factual, I recommend Sabah: Under The Rising Sun Government by Stephen R. Evans (Opus Publications). This book has a section on cannibalism by the JIA, and I have been told of the same (in gory detail) by survivors.

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« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2009, 04:44:22 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Hobbyist
The authors attempt to be credible in the very first sentence of the Author's Note: " Many people told us this book was historically important and must be published - then warned us if it were published, we would be murdered." If you want an "entertaining" read, borrow a copy or buy it 2nd hand. It's not worth the brand-new price.

If you want something that is more factual, I recommend Sabah: Under The Rising Sun Government by Stephen R. Evans (Opus Publications). This book has a section on cannibalism by the JIA, and I have been told of the same (in gory detail) by survivors.


YIKES!

I will look for it.

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« Reply #46 on: October 31, 2009, 01:01:08 am »
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Hello All

It is not the only report case of cannibalism in WW2. The siege of Leningrad Russian citizens to survive ate the frozen dead lying in the streets, and about 2000 JIA Troops cut off from their supply lines in the Owen Stanly Ranges New Guinea eaten by cannibals and native head hunters, are two I can think of......

As horrible as it is, not as rare as one thinks.

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« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2009, 03:13:39 am »
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Quote:Posted by hardluck
Hello All

It is not the only report case of cannibalism in WW2. The siege of Leningrad Russian citizens to survive ate the frozen dead lying in the streets, and about 2000 JIA Troops cut off from their supply lines in the Owen Stanly Ranges New Guinea eaten by cannibals and native head hunters, are two I can think of......

As horrible as it is, not as rare as one thinks.

hardluck  Sad


Yes Hardluck, cannibalism is not a rarity. I can understand and accept having to eat the flesh of dead humans in order to survive, or as part of tribal customs. However, what I was told by a surviving Dusun native was a little different. Certain officers of the JIA encampment in his village sliced off parts of still-living Australian POWs, cut the meat into thin strips and dried them like beef jerky.

This native was an errand-boy for the Japanese, and one day he saw these strips of meat being dried by some soldiers. He asked what the meat was, the soldiers gave him a piece and told him to eat it. After he had eaten a piece, they took him to a cage and showed him a suffering Aussie POW who was missing part of the calf of his leg, and said that's where the meat came from, and the soldiers all had a big laugh.

Every year, people come over here to commemorate the Ranau Death March and they have interviewed surviving natives. From what I've seen, most of those who come for the remembrance ceremonies are Aussie. Have any similar reports of cruel cannibalism ever made it into the media over there?

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« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2009, 04:01:00 am »
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Hello Hobbyist

I am not sure but many of the veterans never fully reveled the horrors they went through. It was a personal emotional secret that they kept to themselves. They did not want to revel the horrors to families that had relatives who had perished in that terrible war.

That is why these sad tired old men haunted by the horrors of war make their pilgrimage back to their fallen comrades to remember them with dignity and respect for the ultimate sacrifice they made. It is an unwritten code that binds them.

Most people are brought up to be honest and compassionate to their fellow man. But then one day the winds of war came and blew that all away. Turning everything in your life that you have been brought up be, not to be. And so Stealing the most sacred thing of all,your humanity.

Then one day they tell stop being the inhuman monster you have become and go back to where you have come from. They never tell you how to turn off the horror that haunts you, in your deepest nightmares were sleep merges into day and sleep into night.

No can ever understand the darkness these men went through, or the new generation of ones of today, that are going through it.

It sadly the undoing of our human race.

Hardluck   Undecided

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« Reply #49 on: October 31, 2009, 05:18:28 am »
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very well said hardluck! Pray



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