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« Reply #140 on: October 29, 2009, 02:43:19 am »
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Quote:Posted by GoldDigger1950
The proof, as they say, is in the pudding. First hand experience outweighs any amount of theory or conjecture. If you have one and like the use of it, that's what matters. You may want to consider renting it to a few folks in this very thread. Naturally, they need your expertise so you will have to go with it. Do you see merit in that?


Yes there is very much merit in that idea! The t-hunting season is drawing to an end over here due to the onset of the monsoon rains, and unless I get hold of a waterproof detector, effectively I shall be twiddling my thumbs as far as this hobby is concerned. In short, I would rather spend my spare time constructively and if pro bono work is part of it, fine with me Smiley

There's bound to be the odd break in rainy weather, so if anyone in Malaysian Borneo would like to see the Nokta Golden King in action, feel free to message me and maybe we can work something out.

1st caveat:
Just don't ask me to dig deep holes like Vourvon did and bury metal for testing the machine...I'm not that hard-working, and would rather expend efforts in working on real targets.
2nd caveat:
If I feel the safety of machine and myself are in doubt, I have no choice but to turn down the inquirer.









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« Reply #141 on: October 30, 2009, 03:25:22 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Hobbyist
Herman Goering advocated the concept of truth by repetition. So do those responsible for the many posts all around the net which disparage the Nokta without reason. It's having the intended effect of creating negatively erroneous 2nd hand opinions; such is their agenda. It's obvious that they have an axe to grind with Nokta; don't fall victim to it.

As for my reasons for defending the machine, I've stated them in prior postings in this thread. Loth as I am of repetition, the most important reason is: should my postings convince even one potential buyer to test out the machine instead of being made unduly wary due to unsubstantiated slander, I shall be content. Maybe most of you are fortunate enough to enjoy this hobby in an area where you need not fear digging up old munitions. People in my neck of the woods have been maimed or died from encountering such devices. The Nokta gives us a chance to substantially reduce such risks at a lower price than an OKM.

I am not as technically inclined as GoldDigger1950 and will not even attempt to comprehend the electronics of this machine. All I can say is: I have the machine, I use it extensively in the field, it really works well and I love it!




*Herman Goering advocated the concept of truth by repetition.*

I never heard that before.... I knew he was very clever.....  I suspect a lot of politicians know and use Goerings thesis!

So, does that mean if I continue to object to Nokta, my objections will be recognized as truth (which I already believe they are) ?

Your caveats sound workable to me, I do not like deep digging, either.  Shocked



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« Reply #142 on: October 30, 2009, 03:38:24 pm »
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Quote:Posted by goldigger
*Herman Goering advocated the concept of truth by repetition.*

I never heard that before.... I knew he was very clever.....  I suspect a lot of politicians know and use Goerings thesis!

So, does that mean if I continue to object to Nokta, my objections will be recognized as truth (which I already believe they are) ?

Your caveats sound workable to me, I do not like deep digging, either.  Shocked




Of course your objections to the Nokta will be taken to be the truth....by those who choose to believe it, much like you have chosen to believe similar "truths". It's a vicious cycle of 2nd-hand opinions, but for those who take the trouble to see the proper picture, this will not be the case.

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #143 on: October 30, 2009, 03:53:16 pm »
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Quote:Posted by goldigger
*Herman Goering advocated the concept of truth by repetition.*

I never heard that before.... I knew he was very clever.....  I suspect a lot of politicians know and use Goerings thesis!

So, does that mean if I continue to object to Nokta, my objections will be recognized as truth (which I already believe they are) ?

Your caveats sound workable to me, I do not like deep digging, either.  Shocked




What's your objection to the Nokta? Weight? Cost? The unit does work, unlike some other forms of detector. It really is a GPR system, not a long range "scammer" type of detector.

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« Reply #144 on: October 30, 2009, 04:17:08 pm »
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Dear GD1950,
How many REAL GPR you saw in your life works at 12.5Khz?

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« Reply #145 on: October 30, 2009, 04:30:35 pm »
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Quote:Posted by ronin
Dear GD1950,
How many REAL GPR you saw in your life works at 12.5Khz?


The physics of soil penetration demand low frequencies. Perhaps you are unaware of that. The technology is what makes the difference. A reflected wave image is used rather than the eddy currents detected with a simple metal detector.

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« Reply #146 on: October 30, 2009, 04:41:26 pm »
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Quote:Posted by ronin
Dear GD1950,
How many REAL GPR you saw in your life works at 12.5Khz?


I am not defending GoldDiger1950, but did you know the first aerial radar worked at 11 meters (27 mHz.)?

It is possible to use VLF for radar, but tricky... usually it is sound pressure, not electronic, so called ultrasound, however oilfield seismic search uses ULF/VLF sound waves, also.... and do produce images, very similar to Nokta, NEMFIS and Arc-Geo. Radar is radar is radar, no matter the frequency or method of propagation. (which can be interesting, to be sure.)

One can argue in circles, but what is important is: can it be done, will it weigh less than a Clydesdale, and how many months of pay will it take!!  Grin

goldigger

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« Reply #147 on: October 30, 2009, 05:42:26 pm »
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Quote:Posted by goldigger
I am not defending GoldDiger1950, but did you know the first aerial radar worked at 11 meters (27 mHz.)?

It is possible to use VLF for radar, but tricky... usually it is sound pressure, not electronic, so called ultrasound, however oilfield seismic search uses ULF/VLF sound waves, also.... and do produce images, very similar to Nokta, NEMFIS and Arc-Geo. Radar is radar is radar, no matter the frequency or method of propagation. (which can be interesting, to be sure.)

One can argue in circles, but what is important is: can it be done, will it weigh less than a Clydesdale, and how many months of pay will it take!!  Grin

goldigger


Jeepers, Brian, you don't have to be paranoid about it. We both know that radar is a technology, not a frequency dependent function. It's still all right to educate the masses here in spite of recent events. It's even all right to agree with each other.

Now, as to your objections about this machine. Would you care to tell me what it is you don't like?

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« Reply #148 on: October 30, 2009, 06:23:17 pm »
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Quote:Posted by GoldDigger1950
Jeepers, Brian, you don't have to be paranoid about it. We both know that radar is a technology, not a frequency dependent function. It's still all right to educate the masses here in spite of recent events. It's even all right to agree with each other.

Now, as to your objections about this machine. Would you care to tell me what it is you don't like?


Generally, though, radar is considered as microwaves, by most... I was pointing out that the meaning can be bent like a pretzel!

What I do not like (I would have to re-view the Nokta and I do not want to...) it is snowing like it is not  going to stop,  so I feel lazy! But....

1) It cost TOO much, probably gives the producer a thousand percent profit... 400% is the acceptable limit to greed (if I manufacture something, I want 4 X cost, for a fair price.);
2) It is a bit too heavy, and probably could be redesigned to be much lighter;
3) the makers are TOO secretive;
4) well, that would get into the review area, I do not want to do!

Have you looked at the competing PULS, available in Germany? It too, is too expensive and heavy! If I had a clue of how the imaging was done, to produce a stable image, I might try  to design one and build it... but, they are not letting out any secrets.

Oil exploration uses software to create strata imaging but the software costs more than a Nokta! I could use  the ideas  behind the software to make dozens of images that could be tied to each other, for an over-all image. Can we do it with a PIC?

I have a hunch it is  related to FFT... what think you? Super-dooper, hyper-fast, ATMega- Arduino?

As for recent arguments,  the best way is to ignore it all, there is no point in flogging a dead mule. I believe in *do not get mad, get even.*

Well, it is now 14 inches of snow! Double darn.

goldigger

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« Reply #149 on: October 31, 2009, 01:18:33 am »
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Quote:Posted by goldigger
Generally, though, radar is considered as microwaves, by most... I was pointing out that the meaning can be bent like a pretzel!

What I do not like (I would have to re-view the Nokta and I do not want to...) it is snowing like it is not  going to stop,  so I feel lazy! But....

1) It cost TOO much, probably gives the producer a thousand percent profit... 400% is the acceptable limit to greed (if I manufacture something, I want 4 X cost, for a fair price.);
2) It is a bit too heavy, and probably could be redesigned to be much lighter;
3) the makers are TOO secretive;
4) well, that would get into the review area, I do not want to do!

Have you looked at the competing PULS, available in Germany? It too, is too expensive and heavy! If I had a clue of how the imaging was done, to produce a stable image, I might try  to design one and build it... but, they are not letting out any secrets.

Oil exploration uses software to create strata imaging but the software costs more than a Nokta! I could use  the ideas  behind the software to make dozens of images that could be tied to each other, for an over-all image. Can we do it with a PIC?

I have a hunch it is  related to FFT... what think you? Super-dooper, hyper-fast, ATMega- Arduino?

As for recent arguments,  the best way is to ignore it all, there is no point in flogging a dead mule. I believe in *do not get mad, get even.*

Well, it is now 14 inches of snow! Double darn.

goldigger


Radar is not microwave, it is Radio Detection And Ranging and was initially longwave. During WWII, there were no airborne radars only ground based. They were simply too big and microwaves hadn't even been dreamed of at that time. Microwaves came about after WWII but before Korea. By the 1950s, the technology had shrunk to the point of being able to be placed in an airborne platform.

I have no idea what their cost to build them is so I can't really say if they are charging too much. I never asked you for a review. We already have one from a Nokta owner and user. He's the local authority having used his more than once.

I don't even want to think about trying to use a PIC or any other device for a data collector because this would mean a geographic device using GPS and a computer. Why do you think the GPR units all use a full blown PC? Because it just can't be done in a PIC with today's technology. Keep dreaming though. Eventually they'll get powerful enough. The ATMEL is not as powerful as a PIC but uses a different architecture which allows for slightly faster interfacing but not processing. The PIC processes internally much faster.

I never mentioned recent arguments so why do you? And what is this about getting even? Do you feel I have somehow wronged you? I hope not.

The snow will be the reason you do more research. As long as the power holds out, that is. Good luck to you, Brian.

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