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« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2009, 09:39:55 pm »
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17" (approx 43cm) depth and uncertain cavity detection is not suitable for me. I'll depend on my Nokta.

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« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2009, 01:51:39 pm »
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Why you think that the maximum depth of the DETECH coil 18x15' - 43cm?  Smiley
Maybe you didn't understand me right - I mean that we have test Golden King with Minelab Explorer SE with coil 18x15' and the result is - Minelab with that coil has beat the Golden King by maximum penetrating depth, speed of scanning and discrim. information.
Regarding cavity detection - maybe you have no enough experience with Nokta - this device show the cavity signal from some metal objects too! Also it can detect the cavity on depth no more then 40cm. It is impossible to detect on depth 1m horizontal tunnels that was build without disturbing of the soil surface. Try on real objects if you did not believe.

But I can understand your opinion if you one of the Nokta dealer.  Wink



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« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2009, 08:13:57 pm »
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Divarnet, I know you are trying to promote DETECH coils, but you're doing it the wrong way. Simply saying that it beats the Nokta is not very convincing when you have not given any depth measurements/soil type/machine settings to compare with. And why ask me what the depth of the DETECH coil is? Are you unable to provide the data or is the actual maximum depth only 43cm as per the .pdf review you posted? Show me a better machine and I may become a purchaser. If you are trying to start a "my detector is better than your detector" pissing contest, I am not interested.

If you think I am a Nokta dealer, feel free to ask Raul or Leilani of Kellycodetectors.com who is the Malaysian customer who gave them a very long list of questions before buying the Nokta NGR and had it sent by DHL to Singapore. Raul got the initial quote wrong, and had quoted cost of courier to the Philippines instead! I'm sure he remembers me  Grin

The first cavity I ever detected with the Nokta was stated as 60cm. A hole was dug and old tree roots were found at roughly 55cm. I have since found cavities at depths of over a meter, with the variance from predicted depth of 10-15cm. I still stand by all I have said, and unless something better comes along, I'll stick with my Nokta.

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« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2009, 03:54:06 am »
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 Grin Hobbyst, you still didn't understand me right. I'm not trying to promote DETECH (but if you insist I can surely say that Minelab or Whites with Detech coils or Lorenz more better then Golden King). Look at the bad sides that I have mentioned above:

- very unstable interface (soft ver. 10D);
- many false signals, because of unstable static mode of detection - such technology use some Chinese detectors from 90-s;
- the depth identity does not work, because with such technology  it is impossible receive right value of the depth. System of Golden King just associate the base with depth values with two parameters of the signal - the strength and size of the signal. It is fake depth identity, we have receive the values more then 70 cm for the objects with real depth - 15 cm;
- maximum depth - 3,5m for sands for very big object. This depth and even more possible to get also with GPX4500 or Explorer SE with coil 18x15" or 21x17". We have asked Nokta many times to make test for maximum depth (8m or even 6m) - they does not agree to make such tests because they know that for the ground - it is only 3-3,5m for very big objects;
- batteries brake very often;
- discriminator work good only on the air;
- it is impossible to separate two closely signals with this detectors (but it is possible with all others) minimum dimension between two objects must be more then 40cm!!! - if it so, detector can separate type of the metal and draw two 3D signals, but if dimension between coin and the iron - 30cm!! it shows you one 3D signal and give wrong information regarding type of the metal;
- 3D is just marketing movement - this visualization does not has any information instead of amplitude of the signal and suspicious information regarding dimension of the signal. Such system does not have linkage with space, it even does not has any accelerometer - only quartz that measure time of pushing the "confirm" button, so you need to know the right speed of scanning and always scan with this speed. If you want to receive long 3D signal from pipe - you can scan just a coin and at the third scan stay under the object 6-7 seconds,  it is simple algorithm;
- very big and unwell-founded price for such simple detector with OMAPx controller;
- uncomfortable work with this detector if you work alone because of such construction;
- automatic ground balance is very timeless


Minelab, Whites and other famous brands - has solve that problems many years ago.

I just try to leave objective review for the Golden King - because we have test it a long time.

You have wrote:
"... The first cavity I ever detected with the Nokta was stated as 60cm. A hole was dug and old tree roots were found at roughly 55cm. I have since found cavities at depths of over a meter, with the variance from predicted depth of 10-15cm."

It is not cavity - it's just changing of mineralization of the soil surface. This changing detectable on the depth 10-40 cm maximum.

Regarding Kellycodetectors.com - they are not authorities for us because they sell long range electroscopes and OKM detectors. They just sellers that does not respect buyers, because they sell such products. Another variant is that the Kellyco just start to work with Nokta and does not know yet the dark side of the reality Grin.



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« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 03:56:30 am by divarnet »
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« Reply #24 on: July 06, 2009, 04:28:37 am »
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Divarnet, thank you for your attempt at clarification. Unfortunately, I still do not see the information I need, because you merely reposted what you said last time. I will post direct questions after the next 2 paragraphs.

No one detector can do all the work, and at times, people have had bad experiences with certain brands, while others have had good experiences. Let me give you an example: I have read of some people's frustrations with 2 box detectors. Some claim shallow depth, some can't even get it to ground balance. I have used a White's 2 box since 1996 (purchased 2nd hand from a discouraged American in the Philippines). I bought a Discovery TF900 in January, even though some people say they can't get more than 3 feet of detection from it. This is because I have gotten depths of up to 18 feet (not meters) from my 2 box detector before. Knowing how to work the machine and knowing the soil can make all the difference.

I view this hobby of detection as a serious hobby. As you may know, some dectorists may have many machines because they know each machine has a different capability. My mind is always open to new tech/methods and I am willing to try out different machines. If I was unhappy with the Nokta, I would not hesitate to write bad things about it. I will not defend a bad thing just because I bought it. Now I hope you can answer the following questions: 

1) Who is the "we" you are referring to when you say "we have tested it for a long time"? And how long was the "long time"?
2) What kind of soil was the Nokta and Detech coils tested on?
3) What was the size/type of the object used in the tests?
4) What was the maximum depth achieved by the Detech coils?
5) Can the Detech coils detect cavities? I did not get a clear answer on this question in your past reply.

I will be heading out to detect again when the weather clears up, and look forward to your reply.

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« Reply #25 on: July 06, 2009, 08:43:00 am »
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"We" - are the group of searchers from Russia.
We have this device from March till July, and have pass many tests on five different test ranges and on the fields.

All test ranges has different objects on different depth, I couldn't remember all information.
But I remember this moment:

On the loam there was an object 15x6cm from the steel that was on the depth 1,2m -
1. Golden King does not find this object but it gave us many false signals from such soil because of static mode of searching. We have lose more then 5 minutes by trying to find object in knowing place.
2. Minelab Explorer with DETECH coil find this objects easily without any false signals. We have pass this test in 50 seconds.

I have write you before - golden king can not find cavity, just changing of mineralization - it also can do older model TM808.
There is NO new technology of metal detecting inside Golden King, ask Nokta regarding any patents - they did not have any patents because they use same technology like older TM-808 (same frequency 12,5 kHz, same induction balance system but with DD coils with linux unstable software that takes a time for simple metal type recognition test).


Do you know what Whites do with older TM-808? They change the schematic and remove possibility of detecting the cavity. Ask them why. I can help you - because of the customers bad feedbacks regarding often false signals.


So this Golden King is just an induction balance metal detector without dynamic search mode (that has all professional devices) and with very simple discrimination possibility (such discrimination has cheap Chinese detectors).

I can say which device Nokta release next - metal detector WITHOUT cavity detection possibility and maybe that work in dynamic mode and of course it will has color LCD and Linux software, Grin because programming on linux more simple then make good interface from the beginning.
All famous manufactures instead Nokta makes soft for detectors by them self, the problem of Nokta software solution is:
1). Long time of loading the system,
2). Unstable work because of many unusual functions (that 3D visualisation is also unusual because it is not has any objective information regarding signal - just simple 3D visualization algorithm.

When Nokta will realize new device we can talk again.  Wink

But now I hope that my reviews will help many people to keep the money from such overstated and uncomfortable metal detector Golden King.

If you want to find the cavity - use GPR or ground conductivity meter it will help you MUCH more.

Dear Hobbyst, before your reply to my post - you must understand that we have big experience in this hobby and we respect all of new devices even if they made in Turkey, but when we make the tests - all things came at there places, so the Golden King place is just on sellers counter, but not on the field (like OKM and others unusual devices)!

Posted on: July 06, 2009, 09:26:33 AM
I can give you good advice - change Golden King to older TM-808 with cavity detection possibility and to Whites Spectra Vision (that works on three freqs) with DETECH coils.

TM-808 - 600$ (maximum)
Whites Spectra V3 or Minelab e-track - 2250$
18x15' DETECH or Excelerators coils - 220$ (will be very soon for Spectra V3)

Total: 3070$
But for this money you will recieve much more comfortable for usage and more informative searching system then Golden King.




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« Last Edit: July 08, 2009, 03:59:45 am by divarnet »
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« Reply #26 on: July 06, 2009, 11:30:26 am »
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OK, divarnet, and what will you say about this:

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http://www.xs4all.nl/~pa4tu/metal-detecting/documents/test_detech.pdf



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« Reply #27 on: July 06, 2009, 04:45:56 pm »
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The test objects was coins. Of course the depth gain you will feel only for medium and big objects thats stay alone on depth.
Smaller coils check smaller ground volume and can effectively registry small objects in rubbish place.
It is the problem of the big coils - useful only for medium and big objects that lies in the ground with small mineralization. 

Also I mentioned which variant can be better then Nokta Golden King that has coil 45x35 cm. It is very weak rival for Minelabs or Whites and it can not be so costly.

Silver79, you are right that mentioned about depth gain for small objects. There is no gain with big coils for small objects.

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« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 04:59:47 pm by divarnet »
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« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2009, 06:18:10 am »
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Divarnet, thank you for your more detailed reply. I have a clearer picture now, but wish you could have given me a better reply on the types of soils that your testing was done in.

On cavity detection: yes I am aware the machines do not detect "cavities" per se, but rather respond to changes in mineralization. The NGR has detected "cavities" over 1m in depth accurately.

On 2 box detectors:
I owned a Whites 2 box (with cave mode and needle dial) and happily used it till I fell into water with the machine on. The Discovery TF900 that I use now is essentially the same as the White's older model, mainly because Discovery used to manufacture it OEM for White's. I understand that now both companies have parted ways and the new TM808 is made by Whites themselves. In the kinds of harsh soils I have been working in for the past several months, the 2 box detector is totally hopeless! Some time ago, I had posted in the metal detection section of this forum for advice on 2 box detectors and heavily mineralized soil, but got no replies. This soil is the worst I have ever encountered in my life.

On the Nokta NGR:
It is obvious that my user experience is quite different from yours. But right now, the only complaints I have about the NGR is the heavy weight, slow loading, and laggy response to button presses. I have yet to encounter an unstable operating system or bad battery (it may be too soon to tell about the battery; lets us see after 2 to 3 months more of heavy use). Most importantly, the performance of the NGR in the field has been most satisfactory. I'm not here to convince anyone to buy a Nokta, merely to state my experience with it so far. I really wish I could give you more details, but due to certain factors, I must restrain myself from writing more for the time being. Maybe one day in the near future, I will be allowed to post a video to Youtube that will prove the performance of my NGR, but for now I must keep quiet.

On the Deep detection head for the Nokta Golden King:
I am currently considering to buy the deep detection head. Can any users of a FUNCTIONAL (stable operating system, no bad battery etc) Golden King share their experiences? PM me or post it in the open if you wish. Thanks!

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« Reply #29 on: July 15, 2009, 04:49:17 am »
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We have change the inner software version of Golden king several times (by sending FULL set to manufacture - very uncomfortable) - all of soft has many bugs even last (10D).

If you want to buy big coil - you must understand that this coil good only on air. When you try to search with this coil - you must know that the on mineralized soil this coil work only with manual ground balance (press "-" until the end - you will receive some sensitivity but not better then with middle coil)
 

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